Re: Http 2 support in Tomcat
Thanks Rainer, I was looking at reasons not to use websockets and found this recent blog. Be interesting to see if HTTP/2 has simular issues. http://www.pubnub.com/knowledge-base/discussion/311/current-websockets-limitations Regards,-Tony From: Rainer Jung rainer.j...@kippdata.de To: Tomcat Users List users@tomcat.apache.org Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 3:12 PM Subject: Re: Http 2 support in Tomcat Am 15.05.2015 um 20:43 schrieb PerfGuru: Thanks Mark Chris this is a very informative. I am using a httpd that supports http/2 and wow is it impressive. Sorry, I had to stop using Apache/Tomcat to use it but the performance and bandwidth gains are so nice it is addicting and my users have noticed. I will look into jre/jdk 9 and ask Oracle if servlet 4 is in the EA's. I would like to stay with http/2 rather than go to websockets but I am an early adaptor and if it is stable and has servlet 4 with http/2 I will give it a try and let you know the results. Best Regards,-Tony Note that web socket and HTTP/2 serve very different purposes. Web sockets provide you basically with a socket you can use for setting up your own protocol and get rid of request/response semantics. Web socket allow to set up asynchoneous communication. HTTP/2 more or less has the same request/response semantics as HTTP. It is onyl a more efficient implementation of that by combining multiple request/response streams into one TCP connection, using header compression etc. etc. HTTP/2 is still synchroneous. Yes, there is a notion of server push, but push in HTTP/2 is very different from what one would name a push in the web socket world. I think it would be better to clearly keep the two terms web socket and HTTP/2 separated. Regards, Rainer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Http 2 support in Tomcat
On 15/05/2015 08:55, anjan bacchu wrote: wondering what the plans are for supporting HTTP 2 support in tomcat ? When is it planned ? Which version(s) are likely to get support ? Work is in progress now. http://tomcat.markmail.org/thread/twqufoz53txetagh I hope to have basic support working in the next couple of weeks (it is probably only a couple of days work but I have other stuff I need to do first). Complete support will need to wait until the Servlet EG decides what the API is going to look like. Until then I'll probably implement whatever the latest thinking is in the Servlet EG. It will be included in Tomcat 9 (it will be required by Servlet 4.0). We may back-port support to earlier versions but that would require significant refactoring of the I/O code to do so. Mark - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Http 2 support in Tomcat
wondering what the plans are for supporting HTTP 2 support in tomcat ? When is it planned ? Which version(s) are likely to get support ?
Re: Http 2 support in Tomcat
Good news thanks for the update. It may be some time before servlet 4 support is released but good to know Tomcat will be ready then.But does APR support http/2? I know other web servers now do. Also, I think Tomcat supports websockets which has the important capabilities that http/2 has and has been available longer. Depending upon your strategy you might want to go with that or wait a couple of years for http/2. Remember the firewalls, proxies and other network systems have to support http/2 before it can reach Tomcat. So it may be by the time http/3 is approved. Regards,-Tony From: Mark Thomas ma...@apache.org To: Tomcat Users List users@tomcat.apache.org Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 2:00 AM Subject: Re: Http 2 support in Tomcat On 15/05/2015 08:55, anjan bacchu wrote: wondering what the plans are for supporting HTTP 2 support in tomcat ? When is it planned ? Which version(s) are likely to get support ? Work is in progress now. http://tomcat.markmail.org/thread/twqufoz53txetagh I hope to have basic support working in the next couple of weeks (it is probably only a couple of days work but I have other stuff I need to do first). Complete support will need to wait until the Servlet EG decides what the API is going to look like. Until then I'll probably implement whatever the latest thinking is in the Servlet EG. It will be included in Tomcat 9 (it will be required by Servlet 4.0). We may back-port support to earlier versions but that would require significant refactoring of the I/O code to do so. Mark - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Http 2 support in Tomcat
Hi Chris, I do not want to start a war but I am using Wildfly 9.0.0 CR1. The initial reason I looked it was due to Undertow. Then I found out they had a HTTP/2 implementation and when I tried that for half of my requests headers went from 3xx bytes down to 3x bytes. The response times were a millisecond but I expected that and they have put into place a measurement down to nanoseconds since internally I am seeing less than microsecond sometimes from my cache system. I plan to move away from Wildfly and use just Undertow if I can to have a lighter container but it was advised to start with Wildfly to use Undertow. For me I feel servlets are getting old and need to be replaced by something else. Way to many layers to get to your application code. I also believe with all the advancements in CPU and memory size that limiting to a single thread when using stateless requests is a waste of capability. Incremental increases in capability is a safe way to go but fun to try something leading edge even if I have to create it myself. Sorry about the rambling. I am still trying to get the servlet 4 implementation release date. Best Regards to Apache,-Tony From: Christopher Schultz ch...@christopherschultz.net To: Tomcat Users List users@tomcat.apache.org Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 2:49 PM Subject: Re: Http 2 support in Tomcat -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Tony, On 5/15/15 2:43 PM, PerfGuru wrote: Thanks Mark Chris this is a very informative. I am using a httpd that supports http/2 and wow is it impressive. Sorry, I had to stop using Apache/Tomcat to use it but the performance and bandwidth gains are so nice it is addicting and my users have noticed. How does it compare to, say, HTTP/1.1 + Content-Encoding: gzip? I realize that HTTP/1.1 never compresses the message headers and that H/2 uses tokens and Huffman Coding to further compress the headers, but I'd like to see some real-world data if you have it. What server are you using? I will look into jre/jdk 9 and ask Oracle if servlet 4 is in the EA's. I would like to stay with http/2 rather than go to websockets but I am an early adopter and if it is stable and has servlet 4 with http/2 I will give it a try and let you know the results. When Tomcat 9 goes Stable, HTTP/2 will definitely work. I'm sure there will be some edge cases that will need to be fixed as time goes on, but the spec will require H/2 and Tomcat will implement faithfully. We don't want to merely say oh, yeah, H/2 kinda works and, well, we HAD to do it, so YMMV. We want to say you can rely on Tomcat to serve H/2 as well as H/1. - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVVlvjAAoJEBzwKT+lPKRY3bwP/1wqb41Eu1fqN80MbrcUUdrJ qnrWD4o9EsvpPo5Abe0mkGXwiP+F2blDKFRYSXolpuADbmMpsd2gLPjrEGiy6H/J M6HFbjWPTAt4cIzscSZjAAUrpe05v0M39ZuV7z+nHXjT5UTyZQgmiNn3uvHPbVwQ DnfwTReswgyi0E5O5Q3qRz32lP49OpZyLgvAEl4N2cd64a+7ScX1eMHpq/NuVuQ8 N+E/GdgsC+UFOO6DYKHNsn8/kOZ1B7oP4e9fmudnBDCXOFTfqB5lsgGRTkvdXQR8 6dJEq8PkkTxPt0tqdd0UAT6FcLU0Axsm/CzNtej5pj5mIUrt9e5PpRPLH8uk1h2/ waq88NyOxJoYKycngubgK/rL1IET7kJ/Nu4f4j4hFDhMxox1w3K9HrMdKogpPYCY Uh7mdCphpjQxZirkwDnDlwOtbq+t66mNM/DJkeumQ3zfC3fe2wLevnDd7cNOEEx/ fj/r2GbB5p+EtOm67ysAyMc5STdobbueZO/ggBleD2tIiMxOcWE+sXbaXHNzydw4 y9phbm75Q2P8w8EslITnyqyTtbUdyAYJUAhy6nosHXujwwAp+wK+J1yfSzlu4a2w fLjgp92QsYP5fcA7yyNv0zI0tIREKJwONyL+vd2DD1IGibdxKGssjCtUr0QkhpfT BXvYpY5JXNoF0YDIEchy =QGzZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Http 2 support in Tomcat
Am 15.05.2015 um 20:23 schrieb Christopher Schultz: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Mark, On 5/15/15 12:59 PM, Mark Thomas wrote: On 15/05/2015 17:49, Christopher Schultz wrote: Tony, On 5/15/15 12:06 PM, PerfGuru wrote: Good news thanks for the update. It may be some time before servlet 4 support is released but good to know Tomcat will be ready then. But does APR support http/2? I know other web servers now do. Mark's initial work on the HTTP/2 connector has been using APR. Note that APR doesn't handle the HTTP protocol, it just helps manage sockets, pools, etc. The protocol needs to be built on top of those building blocks. Please see the dev list (archives) for details. Just search for HTTP/2 subjects. Correct. This is primarily because ALPN support is not there in JSSE yet and wont be until Java 9. That said, one of the reasons for the huge amount of connector refactoring that I did before starting on HTTP/2 was so that the connector implementation specific code was kept to a minimum (so far just ALPN). HTTP/2 will work just fine with NIO and NIO2 just as soon as JSSE support ALPN and we plumb it in. Is this something that's workable with the current pre-release builds of Java 9? Presumably, Servlet 4 will require Java 8. Does that mean that HTTP/2 with the NIO connectors will only be available with a higher JRE version? h2c support (HTTP/2 over a cleartext channel via HTTP upgrade rather than TLS) is also on the TODO list. It shouldn't be much work to add (less than a day) and it wil be available for all connectors. Also, I think Tomcat supports websockets which has the important capabilities that http/2 has and has been available longer. Tomcat supports Websocket since Tomcat 7, as long as you are running on Java 7 or higher. Depending upon your strategy you might want to go with that or wait a couple of years for http/2. Remember the firewalls, proxies and other network systems have to support http/2 before it can reach Tomcat. So it may be by the time http/3 is approved. Tomcat has no choice (application developers do). Servlet 4.0 will require HTTP/2 so Tomcat has to support it. Correct. Using Websocket through certain proxies (e.g. httpd) is even still sometimes tricky. Yeah. We should touch base with jimjag and discuss this. I think the httpd thinking around WebSockets and the Java world thinking about WebSockets aren't quite lined up. +1 Perhaps there isn't much use for Websockets in the Perl or PHP world, where a lot of httpd installations are being used. Jim Riggs's (reprise, I believe) presentation at ApacheCon about how mod_php needs to die (paraphrasing) advocates more extensive use of mod_proxy_* to physically separate the web tier from the application tier, in a way that more closely resembles how Java webapps are deployed. Perhaps if the world starts listening to the Jim Riggses of the world, the shortcomings of mod_proxy_websocket and friends will become more apparent. Do you see any problems using a HTTP/2 enabled proxy in front of Tomcat HTTP or AJP connectors? Combining httpd with mod_h2 and mod_jk should give us enough time for Servlet 4.0 - assuming that the critical slow bandwith, high latency path between the client and the proxy benefits most of the new procotol. - Stefan -- Mayr Stefan Hausen - Gassenaecker 10 82269 Geltendorf Tel.: 08193 - 9979469 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Http 2 support in Tomcat
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Mark, On 5/15/15 12:59 PM, Mark Thomas wrote: On 15/05/2015 17:49, Christopher Schultz wrote: Tony, On 5/15/15 12:06 PM, PerfGuru wrote: Good news thanks for the update. It may be some time before servlet 4 support is released but good to know Tomcat will be ready then. But does APR support http/2? I know other web servers now do. Mark's initial work on the HTTP/2 connector has been using APR. Note that APR doesn't handle the HTTP protocol, it just helps manage sockets, pools, etc. The protocol needs to be built on top of those building blocks. Please see the dev list (archives) for details. Just search for HTTP/2 subjects. Correct. This is primarily because ALPN support is not there in JSSE yet and wont be until Java 9. That said, one of the reasons for the huge amount of connector refactoring that I did before starting on HTTP/2 was so that the connector implementation specific code was kept to a minimum (so far just ALPN). HTTP/2 will work just fine with NIO and NIO2 just as soon as JSSE support ALPN and we plumb it in. Is this something that's workable with the current pre-release builds of Java 9? Presumably, Servlet 4 will require Java 8. Does that mean that HTTP/2 with the NIO connectors will only be available with a higher JRE version? h2c support (HTTP/2 over a cleartext channel via HTTP upgrade rather than TLS) is also on the TODO list. It shouldn't be much work to add (less than a day) and it wil be available for all connectors. Also, I think Tomcat supports websockets which has the important capabilities that http/2 has and has been available longer. Tomcat supports Websocket since Tomcat 7, as long as you are running on Java 7 or higher. Depending upon your strategy you might want to go with that or wait a couple of years for http/2. Remember the firewalls, proxies and other network systems have to support http/2 before it can reach Tomcat. So it may be by the time http/3 is approved. Tomcat has no choice (application developers do). Servlet 4.0 will require HTTP/2 so Tomcat has to support it. Correct. Using Websocket through certain proxies (e.g. httpd) is even still sometimes tricky. Yeah. We should touch base with jimjag and discuss this. I think the httpd thinking around WebSockets and the Java world thinking about WebSockets aren't quite lined up. +1 Perhaps there isn't much use for Websockets in the Perl or PHP world, where a lot of httpd installations are being used. Jim Riggs's (reprise, I believe) presentation at ApacheCon about how mod_php needs to die (paraphrasing) advocates more extensive use of mod_proxy_* to physically separate the web tier from the application tier, in a way that more closely resembles how Java webapps are deployed. Perhaps if the world starts listening to the Jim Riggses of the world, the shortcomings of mod_proxy_websocket and friends will become more apparent. - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVVjm/AAoJEBzwKT+lPKRY6ZAQAK5BSg+ilfOs6T9hNtX91h/x /aZm6dSzncJMyP7gZ1FX2J9wlq+P99lx8FZEkO4gJOVpi/uGqP+nYvZoKydTQ8sb WbMVLMZBjrR+cP0gnX1sMELKQD7Llq8InYblfY9sE3s+wf8BKX4W2NXYei51vQv9 2k9tdgp7k/ibMu4jbSTnuqrFy67eTYLOJEwqXH6F0zsItwCqGX2njFH/ra4i9oU3 SMyIPNYngC3SYKurTve1cxZpU4J3FuWx/KcLIEIePMNUKU/Ner77tizqNi/xil7b Dw7VPgPVnD9tavznCd7Fz9HMhi/giG+X1rK9UJ7tnkP8kpdC+RgM0JPTB6nqEgvW uMJfXWagVcU+Rtmt8smWOpV1VlEMsorqJ8I4OS5DTACt0aFVRsjSXNKRaeLBUUje JPqRFmHKESksIWwJAnWY7BderGPegWTreDreeAQcvy+6ZkkWxxL925iPd+2aDBhP hU/p65YnqqPp8qc+HYwtV5aC1UE1CcKXh8VepFnb9z3H7wUe8hSu1PcxqHUhwJXl OMDjfCGrGs5egdWXqZgQSQKfE9nnhCZqOsKSY+Q5NhBs2P6TKhwv+i0VzdzNKyW8 jKjaoiE3CQEeb1YcPhT7JywChCdL9HKU1xlpY4LfTdIsmz/YngMi4DyWvaAL7dPX qY7fh/2rVnqrZXm52SzO =bawW -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Http 2 support in Tomcat
On 15/05/2015 19:23, Christopher Schultz wrote: Mark, On 5/15/15 12:59 PM, Mark Thomas wrote: On 15/05/2015 17:49, Christopher Schultz wrote: Tony, On 5/15/15 12:06 PM, PerfGuru wrote: Good news thanks for the update. It may be some time before servlet 4 support is released but good to know Tomcat will be ready then. But does APR support http/2? I know other web servers now do. Mark's initial work on the HTTP/2 connector has been using APR. Note that APR doesn't handle the HTTP protocol, it just helps manage sockets, pools, etc. The protocol needs to be built on top of those building blocks. Please see the dev list (archives) for details. Just search for HTTP/2 subjects. Correct. This is primarily because ALPN support is not there in JSSE yet and wont be until Java 9. That said, one of the reasons for the huge amount of connector refactoring that I did before starting on HTTP/2 was so that the connector implementation specific code was kept to a minimum (so far just ALPN). HTTP/2 will work just fine with NIO and NIO2 just as soon as JSSE support ALPN and we plumb it in. Is this something that's workable with the current pre-release builds of Java 9? I have no idea. I haven't had time to look at it. If you fancy playing with it ..; ;) Presumably, Servlet 4 will require Java 8. Does that mean that HTTP/2 with the NIO connectors will only be available with a higher JRE version? The good folks over at Jetty have an ugly hack (involves replacing part of the JRE) that back-ports the feature to Java 8 so it will be available that way. There are other options too. h2c support (HTTP/2 over a cleartext channel via HTTP upgrade rather than TLS) is also on the TODO list. It shouldn't be much work to add (less than a day) and it wil be available for all connectors. Also, I think Tomcat supports websockets which has the important capabilities that http/2 has and has been available longer. Tomcat supports Websocket since Tomcat 7, as long as you are running on Java 7 or higher. Depending upon your strategy you might want to go with that or wait a couple of years for http/2. Remember the firewalls, proxies and other network systems have to support http/2 before it can reach Tomcat. So it may be by the time http/3 is approved. Tomcat has no choice (application developers do). Servlet 4.0 will require HTTP/2 so Tomcat has to support it. Correct. Using Websocket through certain proxies (e.g. httpd) is even still sometimes tricky. Yeah. We should touch base with jimjag and discuss this. I think the httpd thinking around WebSockets and the Java world thinking about WebSockets aren't quite lined up. +1 Perhaps there isn't much use for Websockets in the Perl or PHP world, where a lot of httpd installations are being used. Jim Riggs's (reprise, I believe) presentation at ApacheCon about how mod_php needs to die (paraphrasing) advocates more extensive use of mod_proxy_* to physically separate the web tier from the application tier, in a way that more closely resembles how Java webapps are deployed. Perhaps if the world starts listening to the Jim Riggses of the world, the shortcomings of mod_proxy_websocket and friends will become more apparent. +1. Mark - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Http 2 support in Tomcat
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Tony, On 5/15/15 12:06 PM, PerfGuru wrote: Good news thanks for the update. It may be some time before servlet 4 support is released but good to know Tomcat will be ready then. But does APR support http/2? I know other web servers now do. Mark's initial work on the HTTP/2 connector has been using APR. Note that APR doesn't handle the HTTP protocol, it just helps manage sockets, pools, etc. The protocol needs to be built on top of those building blocks. Please see the dev list (archives) for details. Just search for HTTP/2 subjects. Also, I think Tomcat supports websockets which has the important capabilities that http/2 has and has been available longer. Tomcat supports Websocket since Tomcat 7, as long as you are running on Java 7 or higher. Depending upon your strategy you might want to go with that or wait a couple of years for http/2. Remember the firewalls, proxies and other network systems have to support http/2 before it can reach Tomcat. So it may be by the time http/3 is approved. Correct. Using Websocket through certain proxies (e.g. httpd) is even still sometimes tricky. - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVViOkAAoJEBzwKT+lPKRYr30P/10riJrlBEM4jYSvAfnO/DXP kGf1y5bX6TIgMk1USIrCRMayKNWH/YDRpbOIWA5/dg3tN2Uq1XBANa1hUxmN89KX +ESKe/jyxZoGayCK3q9V3pTgwixSzGzpSzMsQ37KXQw/yhcYS48sZqbCfMjQ0ajx 8AKWw2tPXbTPen5XXvxWB2SaCfmpVOPuXTxXIqJwOThStOkfMj8ko5yn9A+lNUJp EDZq4Tk3sLxOpTq9oDKeyweYUxUurj2F0+TZ3Z+lV5BN3/G4WWUcvStS8Zwa5r1f rQ+mn6Dj3X/pGGS2YmtotlibYB0zFybXKli7zNeXgir0+xprNgF6nm0pu6iZdogx hBU4ulKi9R66HPPVSBIMpqz5bo4Sg2p7yockIqrMmRP/Wv9VLL53pBOuxFvCvVgd gYdaVBe71cJDmVNfZpBGMfH0wNd7EZ4WJsCcVZupc6kLWeD/BjIOfGVvRvmKBhuX DvPFz6WqQpSU5Cs1dZSZ9+uD4dRljToqOXA9TBRSLENaS31PKdVVJW6Fl1sqwK90 7Gr84CIcVS9RyYpnFoR93fDaxgTkus9AxIUa3YfHUde3C6ISwvdw0ioCTfYfli9D D4HuGou/vB6SniwL6gs1wemq6SBaT0I1CO7fRlOQRb+RI4HkH5YOAzt5FM18OPR6 kzRHzg3egOnSFVF0LiFz =7HLo -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Http 2 support in Tomcat
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Tony, On 5/15/15 2:43 PM, PerfGuru wrote: Thanks Mark Chris this is a very informative. I am using a httpd that supports http/2 and wow is it impressive. Sorry, I had to stop using Apache/Tomcat to use it but the performance and bandwidth gains are so nice it is addicting and my users have noticed. How does it compare to, say, HTTP/1.1 + Content-Encoding: gzip? I realize that HTTP/1.1 never compresses the message headers and that H/2 uses tokens and Huffman Coding to further compress the headers, but I'd like to see some real-world data if you have it. What server are you using? I will look into jre/jdk 9 and ask Oracle if servlet 4 is in the EA's. I would like to stay with http/2 rather than go to websockets but I am an early adopter and if it is stable and has servlet 4 with http/2 I will give it a try and let you know the results. When Tomcat 9 goes Stable, HTTP/2 will definitely work. I'm sure there will be some edge cases that will need to be fixed as time goes on, but the spec will require H/2 and Tomcat will implement faithfully. We don't want to merely say oh, yeah, H/2 kinda works and, well, we HAD to do it, so YMMV. We want to say you can rely on Tomcat to serve H/2 as well as H/1. - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVVlvjAAoJEBzwKT+lPKRY3bwP/1wqb41Eu1fqN80MbrcUUdrJ qnrWD4o9EsvpPo5Abe0mkGXwiP+F2blDKFRYSXolpuADbmMpsd2gLPjrEGiy6H/J M6HFbjWPTAt4cIzscSZjAAUrpe05v0M39ZuV7z+nHXjT5UTyZQgmiNn3uvHPbVwQ DnfwTReswgyi0E5O5Q3qRz32lP49OpZyLgvAEl4N2cd64a+7ScX1eMHpq/NuVuQ8 N+E/GdgsC+UFOO6DYKHNsn8/kOZ1B7oP4e9fmudnBDCXOFTfqB5lsgGRTkvdXQR8 6dJEq8PkkTxPt0tqdd0UAT6FcLU0Axsm/CzNtej5pj5mIUrt9e5PpRPLH8uk1h2/ waq88NyOxJoYKycngubgK/rL1IET7kJ/Nu4f4j4hFDhMxox1w3K9HrMdKogpPYCY Uh7mdCphpjQxZirkwDnDlwOtbq+t66mNM/DJkeumQ3zfC3fe2wLevnDd7cNOEEx/ fj/r2GbB5p+EtOm67ysAyMc5STdobbueZO/ggBleD2tIiMxOcWE+sXbaXHNzydw4 y9phbm75Q2P8w8EslITnyqyTtbUdyAYJUAhy6nosHXujwwAp+wK+J1yfSzlu4a2w fLjgp92QsYP5fcA7yyNv0zI0tIREKJwONyL+vd2DD1IGibdxKGssjCtUr0QkhpfT BXvYpY5JXNoF0YDIEchy =QGzZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Http 2 support in Tomcat
Thanks Mark Chris this is a very informative. I am using a httpd that supports http/2 and wow is it impressive. Sorry, I had to stop using Apache/Tomcat to use it but the performance and bandwidth gains are so nice it is addicting and my users have noticed. I will look into jre/jdk 9 and ask Oracle if servlet 4 is in the EA's. I would like to stay with http/2 rather than go to websockets but I am an early adaptor and if it is stable and has servlet 4 with http/2 I will give it a try and let you know the results. Best Regards,-Tony From: Mark Thomas ma...@apache.org To: Tomcat Users List users@tomcat.apache.org Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Http 2 support in Tomcat On 15/05/2015 19:23, Christopher Schultz wrote: Mark, On 5/15/15 12:59 PM, Mark Thomas wrote: On 15/05/2015 17:49, Christopher Schultz wrote: Tony, On 5/15/15 12:06 PM, PerfGuru wrote: Good news thanks for the update. It may be some time before servlet 4 support is released but good to know Tomcat will be ready then. But does APR support http/2? I know other web servers now do. Mark's initial work on the HTTP/2 connector has been using APR. Note that APR doesn't handle the HTTP protocol, it just helps manage sockets, pools, etc. The protocol needs to be built on top of those building blocks. Please see the dev list (archives) for details. Just search for HTTP/2 subjects. Correct. This is primarily because ALPN support is not there in JSSE yet and wont be until Java 9. That said, one of the reasons for the huge amount of connector refactoring that I did before starting on HTTP/2 was so that the connector implementation specific code was kept to a minimum (so far just ALPN). HTTP/2 will work just fine with NIO and NIO2 just as soon as JSSE support ALPN and we plumb it in. Is this something that's workable with the current pre-release builds of Java 9? I have no idea. I haven't had time to look at it. If you fancy playing with it ..; ;) Presumably, Servlet 4 will require Java 8. Does that mean that HTTP/2 with the NIO connectors will only be available with a higher JRE version? The good folks over at Jetty have an ugly hack (involves replacing part of the JRE) that back-ports the feature to Java 8 so it will be available that way. There are other options too. h2c support (HTTP/2 over a cleartext channel via HTTP upgrade rather than TLS) is also on the TODO list. It shouldn't be much work to add (less than a day) and it wil be available for all connectors. Also, I think Tomcat supports websockets which has the important capabilities that http/2 has and has been available longer. Tomcat supports Websocket since Tomcat 7, as long as you are running on Java 7 or higher. Depending upon your strategy you might want to go with that or wait a couple of years for http/2. Remember the firewalls, proxies and other network systems have to support http/2 before it can reach Tomcat. So it may be by the time http/3 is approved. Tomcat has no choice (application developers do). Servlet 4.0 will require HTTP/2 so Tomcat has to support it. Correct. Using Websocket through certain proxies (e.g. httpd) is even still sometimes tricky. Yeah. We should touch base with jimjag and discuss this. I think the httpd thinking around WebSockets and the Java world thinking about WebSockets aren't quite lined up. +1 Perhaps there isn't much use for Websockets in the Perl or PHP world, where a lot of httpd installations are being used. Jim Riggs's (reprise, I believe) presentation at ApacheCon about how mod_php needs to die (paraphrasing) advocates more extensive use of mod_proxy_* to physically separate the web tier from the application tier, in a way that more closely resembles how Java webapps are deployed. Perhaps if the world starts listening to the Jim Riggses of the world, the shortcomings of mod_proxy_websocket and friends will become more apparent. +1. Mark - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Http 2 support in Tomcat
On 15/05/2015 17:49, Christopher Schultz wrote: Tony, On 5/15/15 12:06 PM, PerfGuru wrote: Good news thanks for the update. It may be some time before servlet 4 support is released but good to know Tomcat will be ready then. But does APR support http/2? I know other web servers now do. Mark's initial work on the HTTP/2 connector has been using APR. Note that APR doesn't handle the HTTP protocol, it just helps manage sockets, pools, etc. The protocol needs to be built on top of those building blocks. Please see the dev list (archives) for details. Just search for HTTP/2 subjects. Correct. This is primarily because ALPN support is not there in JSSE yet and wont be until Java 9. That said, one of the reasons for the huge amount of connector refactoring that I did before starting on HTTP/2 was so that the connector implementation specific code was kept to a minimum (so far just ALPN). HTTP/2 will work just fine with NIO and NIO2 just as soon as JSSE support ALPN and we plumb it in. h2c support (HTTP/2 over a cleartext channel via HTTP upgrade rather than TLS) is also on the TODO list. It shouldn't be much work to add (less than a day) and it wil be available for all connectors. Also, I think Tomcat supports websockets which has the important capabilities that http/2 has and has been available longer. Tomcat supports Websocket since Tomcat 7, as long as you are running on Java 7 or higher. Depending upon your strategy you might want to go with that or wait a couple of years for http/2. Remember the firewalls, proxies and other network systems have to support http/2 before it can reach Tomcat. So it may be by the time http/3 is approved. Tomcat has no choice (application developers do). Servlet 4.0 will require HTTP/2 so Tomcat has to support it. Correct. Using Websocket through certain proxies (e.g. httpd) is even still sometimes tricky. Yeah. We should touch base with jimjag and dicuss this. I think the httpd thinking around WebSockets and the Java world thinking about WebSockets aren't quite lined up. Mark - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Http 2 support in Tomcat
Am 15.05.2015 um 20:43 schrieb PerfGuru: Thanks Mark Chris this is a very informative. I am using a httpd that supports http/2 and wow is it impressive. Sorry, I had to stop using Apache/Tomcat to use it but the performance and bandwidth gains are so nice it is addicting and my users have noticed. I will look into jre/jdk 9 and ask Oracle if servlet 4 is in the EA's. I would like to stay with http/2 rather than go to websockets but I am an early adaptor and if it is stable and has servlet 4 with http/2 I will give it a try and let you know the results. Best Regards,-Tony Note that web socket and HTTP/2 serve very different purposes. Web sockets provide you basically with a socket you can use for setting up your own protocol and get rid of request/response semantics. Web socket allow to set up asynchoneous communication. HTTP/2 more or less has the same request/response semantics as HTTP. It is onyl a more efficient implementation of that by combining multiple request/response streams into one TCP connection, using header compression etc. etc. HTTP/2 is still synchroneous. Yes, there is a notion of server push, but push in HTTP/2 is very different from what one would name a push in the web socket world. I think it would be better to clearly keep the two terms web socket and HTTP/2 separated. Regards, Rainer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
