Jones,
I don't think your leap of faith is restricted to [snip]reversible fusion
is slightly energetic [/snip] but rather that the cavity environment or NAE
is the energetic source where any 2 body relationship established at one
geometry can experience a discount toward disassociation when
Eric,
Here are a few other brief points leading to the conclusion that hydrogen
mass is not quantized-at least not “in practice”. (to be explained)
First off – it would be most unusual for only one isotope of one element in
the entire periodic table to be quantized. That would be the case if the
One derivative speculation of all of this, which points to usable details to
help to better design NiH experiments, is to know “how much” excess
mass-energy exists in hydrogen (as “overage” from the average) which mass
can be converted to energy (via goldstone bosons). If this estimate can be
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 11:50 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote:
I wrote:
What is it that is causing the proton in this model to vary in mass, and
is the range of possible masses discrete or continuous?
I should anticipate one possible answer, which seems like a good explanation
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
One derivative speculation of all of this, which points to usable details to
help to better design NiH experiments, is to know “how much” excess
mass-energy exists in hydrogen (as “overage” from the average) which mass
7.4 x 10^-35 rather
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
One derivative speculation of all of this, which points to usable details to
help to better design NiH experiments, is to know
This would set the upper limit of available energy somewhere around
83.2 eV per atom.
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
7.4 x 10^-35 rather
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Jones
Good point Terry - but - I don't have a problem with the sampling
uncertainty being less than what is actually available to be captured within
samples.
This is not an easy point to reconcile, and I could be wrong on how NIST
arrived at that number, but - the kind of uncertainty in the table
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
Thus you might say that there would be low mass variability between hydrogen
split from tropical seawater in 1950 and hydrogen spit from Siberian methane
in 2013.
That would have profound implications. Some sources of
...@pacbell.net
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 08:18:53 -0800
Eric,
Here are a few other brief points leading to the conclusion that hydrogen mass
is not quantized-at least not in practice. (to be explained)
First off - it would be most unusual
Well, if I had the backing to test the hypothesis, one of the first
experiments would be to set up three identical reactors using nickel
nanopowder, or Ni loaded zeolite.
1) argon fill, as an inert baseline
2) H2 enriched via multi-stage enrichment of the least dense fractional
component of
. This is also a better
explanation that the 'common ion transition' explanations for the action within
a HYDROGEN FUEL CELL for instance.
Until this is grasped, Practical overunity-Cold Fusion will continue to allude
practical application.
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:18:12 -0500
Subject: Re: [Vo
reactions yielding notable XO-Plamic
flux harvest. . .
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
From: dlrober...@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 23:21:59 -0500
A thought occurred to me after the brief discussion that was conducted about
the subject of D + D fusion
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
This essentially is the best argument for quantization: if the electron is
quantized – then why not the proton? But it is a false expectation. Can
anyone think of any good theoretical argument which demand quantization in
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 1:29 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote:
If so, why would any form of energy arbitration
Typo: arbitrage not arbitration.
Eric
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote:
Interesting discussion. It raises for me, among other things, questions
about the limits of the instruments used to determine the mass of the
various particles being discussed.
I think this is used for the proton:
I wrote:
Your argument is general and would seem to go beyond protons, since it
operates at the level of quarks and gluons and so on and calls out nothing
specific to protons, in particular. You appear to extend the variable-mass
hypothesis to electrons; can I assume that it applies to
From: Eric Walker
* why would any form of energy arbitration, in which a magnetic field is used
to drain off a little bit of the mass of a proton, not also apply to neutrons
and electrons?
For any energy to transfer, even spin energy - from a disturbed proton to
another nucleus
Yes, people try to explain LENR using the behavior described in the
paper. However, the behavior being caused is not cold fusion but hot
fusion. Hot fusion is an entirely different reaction with different
nuclear products and a different mechanism. Hot fusion REQUIRES high
energy, cold
The proton-proton chain reaction on the sun is mostly “reversible fusion”. P+P
- H2
It has been posted here many times that the strong force is overwhelming at
close range - and will bring too protons together , despite Pauli. But almost
always the He2 nucleus which forms then immediately
d+d=n+He3 and d+d=t+p
What about d+d+...+d=? We don't know. This is what many many particle
models ends up being. Theyare hot fusion. The only difference it is that
there are many, more than 2, incoming nuclei to fuse. You cannot do that
in experiments using colliders, it is too unlikely. So,
The human mind is able to imagine endless possibilities. In order to
make any progress, a triage must be done by eliminating the ideas that
are so improbable or so illogical that they have very little chance of
being correct. That is what I'm attempting to do.
In any case, several basic
The number of elements is not an issue. You can just have increase the
precision by considering an arbitrarily high quantity of particles, like
quarks and gluons and whatever particle of the SM you want. So, there is no
rule restricting the number of bodies taking part in the problem.
2013/1/25
Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 10:38 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
The human mind is able to imagine endless possibilities. In order to make any
progress, a triage must be done by eliminating
Daniel, we are not communicating. Do you understand the law of
conservation of momentum that applies to all nuclear reactions? That
is the only thing I'm discussing. When a nuclear reaction occurs, the
energy must be communicated to the rest of the world and momentum must
be conserved in
No, we are certainly not. I let this Sisyphean task to Abd.
2013/1/25 Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
Daniel, we are not communicating.
--
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com
and break the isotropy.
Regards
Fran
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 10:38 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
The human mind is able to imagine endless possibilities. In order to
make any
of proton to proton fusion
would help me to understand what is proven to occur in real life.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:17 am
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
The proton
Instead, I suggest you consult any physics text about the law of
conservation of momentum.
Ed
On Jan 25, 2013, at 9:16 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
No, we are certainly not. I let this Sisyphean task to Abd.
2013/1/25 Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
Daniel, we are not communicating.
--
: Friday, January 25, 2013 8:29 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
Yes, they are forever associated with lattice and geometry defects but
that is not relevant. You need to understand what happens at the site of the
nuclear reaction. The site
but not for the one ideally located?
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
Sent: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:38 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
The human mind is able to imagine endless
Cc: Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
Sent: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 10:38 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
The human mind is able to imagine endless possibilities. In order to
make any progress, a triage must be done by eliminating the ideas
that are so improbable or so illogical
From: David Roberson
I find the P+P - H2 fusion reaction to be an interesting concept to
speculate upon… Unless energy of an adequate quantity is released by some
mechanism at the precise time of the collision, the kinetic energy of the
relative motion between the devices is
-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
Sent: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 12:12 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
The problem with such exchanges is that the messages to different people cross
so that I have to explain the same thing several times, which is a waste
...@ix.netcom.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
Sent: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 12:12 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
The problem with such exchanges is that the messages to different
people cross so that I have to explain the same thing several times
...@ix.netcom.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
Sent: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 1:27 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
On Jan 25, 2013, at 11:17 AM, David Roberson wrote:
Sometimes the emails do get crossed up with the number of responses
@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
From: David Roberson
I find the P+P - H2 fusion reaction to be an interesting concept to speculate
upon… Unless energy of an adequate quantity is released by some mechanism at
the precise time of the collision, the kinetic energy
...@ix.netcom.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
Sent: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 1:27 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
On Jan 25, 2013, at 11:17 AM, David Roberson wrote:
Sometimes the emails do get crossed up with the number of
responses
...@ix.netcom.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
Sent: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 12:12 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
The problem with such exchanges is that the messages to different people
cross so that I have to explain the same thing several times
pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
For one, it is not possible for an alpha with that total energy to be released.
I would like to introduce a complicating factor: electron screening..
Both the cross section of alpha decay and nuclear fusion can be significantly
reduced by electron
In reply to MarkI-ZeroPoint's message of Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:07:46 -0800:
Hi,
[snip]
systems, the rate enhancement of 2x10e44 is expected via coherent collapse
This is properly written 2E44. The E implies 10^.
Regards,
Robin van Spaandonk
http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
*For one, it is not possible for an alpha with that total energy to be
released.*
I would like to introduce a complicating factor: electron screening..
Both the cross section of alpha decay and nuclear fusion can be
significantly reduced
with interest. Perhaps
quantum mechanics is the process that arranges the loan.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 3:31 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
Quantum mechanics lives in the realm
, but I have no idea how much.
I began to think of a multiple electron case, but grew weary as my
mind wasted away.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 2:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
2000 electrons? I expect that this many would do the trick. If one can help a
bit, then 2000 would help a lot more. The end result I suspect is that the
Coulomb energy must be absorbed from this group by some means if only
Message-
From: Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
Sent: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 12:12 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
The problem with such exchanges is that the messages to different
people cross so
: Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com
Sent: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 12:12 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
The problem with such exchanges is that the messages to different
people cross so that I have to explain
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
For one, it is not possible for an alpha with that total energy to
be released.
I would like to introduce a complicating factor: electron screening..
Both the cross section of alpha decay and nuclear fusion can be
significantly reduced by electron
Excuse my grammar. English is not my native language.
Can energy
and momentum be transferred from the new He4 to another nucleus at some
distains?
Energy can be transferred from one molecule to another threw
a quantum mechanical mechanism.
This occurs in photo synthesis there
excitations
On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:49 PM, torulf.gr...@bredband.net torulf.gr...@bredband.net
wrote:
Excuse my grammar. English is not my native language.
I will try to answer your questions as simply as possible.
Can energy and momentum be transferred from the new He4 to another
nucleus at some
...@bredband.net
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
CC: stor...@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
Excuse my grammar. English is not my native language.
Can energy and momentum be transferred from the new He4 to another nucleus at
some distains?
Energy can be transferred from one molecule
Oops - let me correct a major typo.
The proton-proton chain reaction on the sun is mostly “reversible fusion”. P+P
- H2
This, of course, should be: P+P - 2He (the helium-2 nucleus, which is
unstable).
It has been posted here many times that the strong force is overwhelming at
*Energy can be transferred from one molecule to another threw a quantum
mechanical mechanism.*
Yes
http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/07/diamonds-entangled-in-physics-feat/
In the case of Walmsley's study, photons were showing up in two spots at
the same time and causing vibrations within
:18 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
Energy can be transferred from one molecule to another threw a quantum
mechanical mechanism.
Yes
http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/07/diamonds-entangled-in-physics-feat/
In the case of Walmsley's study, photons were showing up in two spots
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
In the end - it’s hard enough to convince observers that proton mass varies
between atoms in any population - instead is an “average mass” which is not
quantized.
One question I have about this approach has to do with a
I wrote:
What is it that is causing the proton in this model to vary in mass, and
is the range of possible masses discrete or continuous?
I should anticipate one possible answer, which seems like a good
explanation -- a proton is not a point particle, like a photon, and it does
not travel at
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1207.0079
These authors showed how to approach one of the fundamental problems of
hadronic physics, the calculation of the baryon masses from the Lagrangian
and the vacuum condensates of QCD.
Cheers: Axil
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 11:50 PM, Eric Walker
Electrons moving in certain solids can behave as if they are a thousand
times more massive than free electrons, but at the same time act as
superconductors..
http://phys.org/news/2012-06-mass-scientists-electrons-heavy-speedy.html#jCp
See the included video that displays heavy electrons at
Speaking of chemo-nuclear transitions in a general way - and especially in
regards to hydrogen thermal anomalies, it is possible that the very
definition of chemical energy is in jeopardy soon - to the extent that
Mills finally delivers.
This is because of the Rydberg teachings - which is
that
input of energy?
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 24, 2013 10:53 am
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
.
This ostensibly non-nuclear but supra-chemical gain is available because of
the Rydberg
, 2013 10:53 am
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
.
This ostensibly non-nuclear but supra-chemical gain is available because of
the Rydberg value of mass-energy of 13.6 eV for hydrogen. This basically
represents the energy which is obtainable from a proton capturing an
electron
: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:10 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
David,
Good question … and yes - natureprovides us with a few clues.
Without getting intoanything proprietary – you need only look at the oceans
It would appear that clusters of electrons can form in some materials
at low temperature. The BIG question is whether these have the ability
to initiate a nuclear reaction, especially at a rate of near 10^11
times/sec as is required to explain CF. As for the Miley idea, the
question is
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:04 PM, Chuck Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote:
The proton-proton chain reaction is initiated with a strong interaction
between two protons, that binds to form a diproton, the diproton then
decays via weak interaction (a W boson) into a deuteron + electron +
electron
I wrote:
But the proton-proton chain has its own difficulties.
Here I have in mind only the beginning of the proton-proton chain, where
you have
p+p - 2p
and then
2p - d + e+ + v.
The rest of the proton-proton chain is easier to wrap one's head around in
the context of LENR.
Eric
I don't know what you mean by This study has no relationship to cold
fusion because
the same nuclear products are not formed. See page p.14, section 13. He
tries to explain Rossi's reactor. See p. 18, table II. This context shows
he's trying to explain CF and Rossi's reactor.
2013/1/23 Edmund
Excellent find Lou!! Much appreciate it!
The abstract for just one section of the book sounds extremely interesting
and encouraging:
Our decadal basic research confirmed: Chemonuclear fusion of light nuclei
in the metallic Li-liquids hold the common mechanism with pycnonuclear
reactions in the
This paper and many others like it describe how HOT fusion is enhanced
when it occurs in a chemical lattice. This study has no relationship
to cold fusion because the same nuclear products are not formed.
While the lattice enhances the hot fusion rate, it does so only at
very low energy
Thanks for the input, Ed
I am agnostic on the underlying physics, but am interested in whether
this approach make any type of fusion viable.
If you have the time, or interest, in some of this author's patent
applications, here are a few:
Method of and apparatus for generating recoilless
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
This paper and many others like it describe how HOT fusion is enhanced when
it occurs in a chemical lattice. This study has no relationship to cold
fusion because the same nuclear products are not formed. While the lattice
enhances the hot fusion rate
, but it has no
relationship to cold fusion. Cold fusion does not require the initial
keV and produces He not neutrons.
Ed
-Mark
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 1:23 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo
Thanks for the explanations!
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 2:10 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions
On Jan 23, 2013, at 2:56 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:
Thanks Ed
Well Lou, I doubt this can be practical. Most of the energy in the D+
beam will result in heat with a little energy from fusion added.
Meanwhile, an apparatus is required to supply a very intense D+
beam.I suspect that once the D+ concentration gets too high in the
target, the enhanced
Hi Ed, and fellow vortexians, I've been thinking about the issue of proton
fusion in metals, that is can H in metals be so condensed to start the
proton-proton chain reaction within a metal lattice. The proton-proton
chain reaction is initiated with a strong interaction between two protons,
The description of the Shukla-Eliasson (SE) force is just been released and
is a major breakthrough in understanding electron screening behavior within
heavy concentrations of degenerate electrons.
http://nanopatentsandinnovations.blogspot.com/2012/03/new-physical-attraction-between-ions-in.html
By the way, Anderson localization will concentrate degenerate electrons
near cracks in a metal lattice. This will catalyze the formation of proton
crystals within the cracks as seen by Miley in his experimentation.
Ed Storm said this about Miley’s experimentation in “Edmund Storms /
Journal of
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