No shit Shurlock. I can project as well as you. What's your game? If you
don't know, I will tell you.
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
a...@lomaxdesign.comwrote:
At 04:49 PM 7/21/2011, Damon Craig wrote:
I find your statements bewildering.
Projection of internal state
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
a...@lomaxdesign.comwrote:
No, increased pressure is caused by the pump (I have little idea how much
it will cause, but my guess is that this isn't enough to raise the pressure
to atmospheric), and by steam pressure from boiling. Even a
The greatest souce of pressure is the water standing in the hose. If the
hose end loops up 12 inches to dump into a bucket. There is a head of water
was the hose decends to the floor from the device of 12 inches. The steam
must push down upon this head to escape raising the pressure in the
device.
Will I be misunderstood if I don't say this was said with sarcasm and
exageration?
Actually, the best head of water you can get require both the device is and
exit are on the roof.
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 2:41 AM, Damon Craig decra...@gmail.com wrote:
If it rises 30 to dump into a sink, think
There are some pretty sloppy statements. I know that Damon is being
sarcastic, but that sarcasm is based on certain understandings. Let's
be more careful, everyone!
At 05:41 AM 7/21/2011, Damon Craig wrote:
The greatest souce of pressure is the water standing in the hose.
Probably not, but
I find your statements bewildering.
.
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
a...@lomaxdesign.comwrote:
There are some pretty sloppy statements. I know that Damon is being
sarcastic, but that sarcasm is based on certain understandings. Let's be
more careful, everyone!
At
I would think that anyone seriously investigating should have the reports
and video evidence closer at hand.
It's embedded in Lewans Ny Teknik article.
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3166552.ece
It would be nice if someone would post the link, if they have it handy
At 04:49 PM 7/21/2011, Damon Craig wrote:
I find your statements bewildering.
Projection of internal state onto external reality.
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
mailto:a...@lomaxdesign.coma...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
There are some pretty sloppy statements. I know that
On 11-07-18 03:15 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Rossi wrote:
I received him to get those suggestions, curious to know about what
he had to suggest. I was working in my Bologna lab when I received
him and he saw one E-Cat under test for no more that 30 seconds,
after which I invited him to exit.
I agree. I hadn't considered the submersion depth of the probe for
additional pressure head.
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
a...@lomaxdesign.comwrote:
At 12:20 PM 7/18/2011, P.J van Noorden wrote:
To conventionally explain the boilingpoint of 100.5 degrC the backpressure
Robert Leguillon wrote:
I made the comment about someone flushing the toilet to demonstrate that some
of the momentary power spikes could be caused by correlating drops in water pressure.
I do not see how this could cause a 20-minute event.
There was no continuous monitoring of flow
Jed sez:
They told me the flow rate was continuously monitored
with a video camera. The meter keeps track of total
consumption, as I said. There was no pump; just water
pressure from the tap. That is very reliable. Water
pressure does not change measurably at 1 L/s for
20 minutes when
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote:
2011/7/18 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com:
P.J van Noorden wrote:
It is very important to notice that water boils at 100.5 C when the
outside air pressure is 1030 mBar, which can be the case when a high
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:20 AM, P.J van Noorden pjvannoor...@caiway.nlwrote:
To conventionally explain the boilingpoint of 100.5 degrC the backpressure
in the Ecat must have been 30mbar (for a boilingpoint of 99.6degC) and
20mbar for a boilingpoint of 99.9degC. This compares to resp 30.6
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
P.J van Noorden wrote:
It is very important to notice that water boils at 100.5 C when the
outside air pressure is 1030 mBar, which can be the case when a high
pressure system is covering Italy . . .
In the April
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote:
P.J van Noorden wrote:
the airpressure on April 28th 2011 was 1011 mbar, so the boilingpoint must
have been 99.9 degC. The difference in boilingtemperature can be
explained by the accuracy of the thermometer (+/- 0.4
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
a...@lomaxdesign.comwrote:
At 12:55 AM 7/18/2011, Joshua Cude wrote:
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 10:40 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax mailto:
a...@lomaxdesign.coma**b...@lomaxdesign.com a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
At 09:14 PM 7/17/2011, Akira
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Damon Craig decra...@gmail.com wrote:
How do you take a 30 minute glance?
Well, Brown said in his report that Rossi showed him heat after death for
about 2 minutes. (He also told me this.) That's more than 30
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Mark Iverson zeropo...@charter.net wrote:
Abd wrote:
Whatever is the cause, that the temperature is nailed shows that there is
steam and water in
equilibrium.
It's only been recently that Rossi admits to achieving completely dry
steam,
The claim is
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 8:06 PM, Mark Iverson zeropo...@charter.net wrote:
In all the talk about the start up slope and thermal mass, one can almost
forget the metals. Here
are the specific heats for most of the materials that make up the majority
of the e-Cat:
- Hydrogen (gas) 14.30
So not only is very wet steam with 95% liquid by mass possible, but there are
ways to measure it accurately. Not with an RH probe, though.
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Robert Leguillon
robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote:
So not only is very wet steam with 95% liquid by mass possible, but there
are ways to measure it accurately. Not with an RH probe, though.
Sorry, but some people seem to think that horse is still
At 03:15 PM 7/19/2011, Joshua Cude wrote:
The 120 kW excursion makes the 18-hr test less credible to me. It
means that during that excursion the delta T between the ecat walls
and the water would have to increase by an order of magnitude. If
ordinary operation is at 300C or 400C, this would
2011/7/19 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
At 03:15 PM 7/19/2011, Joshua Cude wrote:
The 120 kW excursion makes the 18-hr test less credible to me. It means
that during that excursion the delta T between the ecat walls and the water
would have to increase by an order of magnitude. If
At 03:58 PM 7/19/2011, Joshua Cude wrote:
In the paper they show how their technique can measure steam quality
to within a few per cent between 5% and 80%. 5% corresponds to 5 %
steam by mass, and yes, that means 95% liquid by mass.
That seems to be the official definition of steam quality:
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
a...@lomaxdesign.comwrote:
At 03:58 PM 7/19/2011, Joshua Cude wrote:
In the paper they show how their technique can measure steam quality to
within a few per cent between 5% and 80%. 5% corresponds to 5 % steam by
mass, and yes, that
At 05:06 PM 7/19/2011, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
2011/7/19 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
At 03:15 PM 7/19/2011, Joshua Cude wrote:
The 120 kW excursion makes the 18-hr test less credible to me. It means
that during that excursion the delta T
between the ecat walls and the water
JC wrote:
Have I got it straight? Because if so, then I think the idea is whacked. If
not -- if you think the
ecat *can* produce intermediate powers -- please try to explain what would
come out of the ecat if
it were producing 2 kW power (in the Krivit demo). Presumably, if there is no
:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/prescorh2oboilcalc.html
Peter v Noorden
- Original Message -
From: Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 4:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:European Patent Office observer criticizes Rossi's E-Cat
2011/7/18 Abd ul
P.J van Noorden wrote:
It is very important to notice that water boils at 100.5 C when the
outside air pressure is 1030 mBar, which can be the case when a high
pressure system is covering Italy . . .
In the April 28 tests, Lewan reported: we calibrated the probe by
immersing it in a pot
2011/7/18 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com:
P.J van Noorden wrote:
It is very important to notice that water boils at 100.5 C when the
outside air pressure is 1030 mBar, which can be the case when a high
pressure system is covering Italy . . .
In the April 28 tests, Lewan reported: we
Rossi could serve many negative examples for a course of Prestige
Management He reminds me one of the 'casts'
of this fable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog
It seems he does not care, because if the E-cat woirks well
at the industrial level, these gaffes will be forgotten.
If Rossi was a scammer, he'd never accept this kind of visit or would
make a more decent presentation like he did with Lewan or would just
remain silent. This explosive behavior makes me think that e-cat is
true... Unless he is simulating a true behavior to hide a scam. This
is a kind of recursive
P.J van Noorden wrote:
the airpressure on April 28th 2011 was 1011 mbar, so the boilingpoint
must have been 99.9 degC. The difference in boilingtemperature can be
explained by the accuracy of the thermometer (+/- 0.4 degrC).
At these temperatures with boiling water I doubt the water
At 12:55 AM 7/18/2011, Joshua Cude wrote:
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 10:40 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
mailto:a...@lomaxdesign.coma...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
At 09:14 PM 7/17/2011, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
So most of the time he now performs stress tests on his modules in
self-sustaining mode,
Rossi wrote:
I received him to get those suggestions, curious to know about what
he had to suggest. I was working in my Bologna lab when I received
him and he saw one E-Cat under test for no more that 30 seconds,
after which I invited him to exit. He made no tests, he saw nothing,
he just
[snip]
However, we know that Rossi is, shall we say, enthusiastic, and not
terribly careful about what he says. The 18-hour test allegedly
showed a transient temperature phenomenon that has been interpreted
as 120 kW. Just for starters, that might be explained, for example,
by some scale
How do you take a 30 minute glance?
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote:
Rossi wrote:
I received him to get those suggestions, curious to know about what he had
to suggest. I was working in my Bologna lab when I received him and he saw
one E-Cat under
Damon Craig decra...@gmail.com wrote:
How do you take a 30 minute glance?
Well, Brown said in his report that Rossi showed him heat after death for
about 2 minutes. (He also told me this.) That's more than 30 seconds.
Perhaps Rossi just means for a short while. I do not think he means 30
So, can you confirm that Julian Brown from the European Patent Office
is the same as the one of this paper:
http://arxiv.org/abs/0711.1878 ?
-- Forwarded message --
From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
Date: 2011/7/18
Subject: Re: [Vo]:European Patent Office observer
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote:
So, can you confirm that Julian Brown from the European Patent Office
is the same as the one of this paper:
http://arxiv.org/abs/0711.1878 ?
Who else would he be? I wasn't aware there was a controversy.
This reminds me of the joke about a person
At 10:08 AM 7/18/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote:
P.J van Noorden wrote:
It is very important to notice that water boils at 100.5 C when the
outside air pressure is 1030 mBar, which can be the case when
a high pressure system is covering Italy . . .
In the April 28 tests, Lewan reported: we
At 12:07 PM 7/18/2011, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
On 2011-07-17 21:16, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
And this was Rossi's answer:
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=497cpage=16#comment-53792
It looks like Rossi has updated his answer on
JONP, without adding a note about that. I
personally
At 12:20 PM 7/18/2011, P.J van Noorden wrote:
To conventionally explain the boilingpoint of 100.5 degrC the
backpressure in the Ecat must have been 30mbar (for a boilingpoint
of 99.6degC) and 20mbar for a boilingpoint of 99.9degC. This
compares to resp 30.6 cm and 20.4cm water and this is
I am not sure if you could do this procedure in any place. In not all
places the accused is allowed to produce evidences against
his/herself.
If Brown didn't say what Rossi claims, I'd
suggest Brown may want those recordings *immediately* subpoenaed. If he did
say that, and if what he said
At 03:15 PM 7/18/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Rossi wrote:
I received him to get those suggestions, curious to know about
what he had to suggest. I was working in my Bologna lab when I
received him and he saw one E-Cat under test for no more that 30
seconds, after which I invited him to exit.
Abd wrote:
Whatever is the cause, that the temperature is nailed shows that there is
steam and water in
equilibrium.
It's only been recently that Rossi admits to achieving completely dry steam,
and from Kullander's
report we can estimate that the steam has less than 2% liquid content (1.4%
Abd wrote:
... that the temperature is nailed shows that there is steam and water in
equilibrium.
This is not a characteristic of dry steam.
It all depends on the consistency of the inlet flow rate and water temperature,
and the reactor's
heat production. With most of the tests the pump
At 03:42 PM 7/18/2011, Robert Leguillon wrote:
[snip]
However, we know that Rossi is, shall we say, enthusiastic, and not
terribly careful about what he says. The 18-hour test allegedly
showed a transient temperature phenomenon that has been interpreted
as 120 kW. Just for starters, that might
At 05:25 PM 7/18/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Daniel Rocha mailto:danieldi...@gmail.comdanieldi...@gmail.com wrote:
So, can you confirm that Julian Brown from the European Patent Office
is the same as the one of this paper:
http://arxiv.org/abs/0711.1878http://arxiv.org/abs/0711.1878 ?
Who else
In one of my comments, I put a website that lists people with given
names up to 200. There are over 200 Julian Browns in the UK, that
is, they exceed the maximum amount allowed to be displayed in the
website. So, that is a common name.
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
They were not regulating flow in the 18 hour test. It was a direct feed
from the tap (or spigot), and the utility water-meter served as their
impromptu flow meter.
I don't think it was impromptu. It was installed in the line to the machine,
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
Who else would he be? I wasn't aware there was a controversy.
Jed, haven't you read Rossi's comment? He's claiming that Brown is an
imposter.
I missed that.
As far as I know he is the fellow who has been involved in cold fusion for a
long
At 08:49 PM 7/18/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
I am not sure if you could do this procedure in any place. In not all
places the accused is allowed to produce evidences against
his/herself.
If Brown didn't say what Rossi claims, I'd
suggest Brown may want those recordings *immediately* subpoenaed.
Any data or estimates as to the volume inside the Rossi device,
available to be filled with water up to the exit hole, and the
additional space above the maximum water level, available to be filled
up with mist, foam, froth, bubbles, and steam?
If the available water volume is, say, 180 cc, then
The meeting took place in Bologna. The thing that could happen is
Brown accusing Rossi of defamation and show a picture of the website
as a proof. If Rossi didn't present defense, the purported recordings,
he would get a sentence. No need for a subpoena.
At 09:20 PM 7/18/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax mailto:a...@lomaxdesign.coma...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
They were not regulating flow in the 18 hour test. It was a direct
feed from the tap (or spigot), and the utility water-meter served as
their impromptu flow meter.
I don't
At 09:22 PM 7/18/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax mailto:a...@lomaxdesign.coma...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
Who else would he be? I wasn't aware there was a controversy.
Jed, haven't you read Rossi's comment? He's claiming that Brown is
an imposter.
I missed that.
As far as I
According to Rossi, high output of heats does yield a lot of
radiation, I think gamma radiation. I think he said somewhere that he
had to stay 30m away from the e-cat so that radiation were not
harmful. I am not sure of this.
At 10:22 PM 7/18/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
The meeting took place in Bologna. The thing that could happen is
Brown accusing Rossi of defamation and show a picture of the website
as a proof. If Rossi didn't present defense, the purported recordings,
he would get a sentence. No need for a
I am not referring to US, but to Italy, since I suppose they have a
criminal Law similar to my country, Brazil.
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
Jed, you are forgetting something. The 120 kW figure was for a very short
time.
About 20 minutes, I think. Long enough to be certain it is real, with this
equipment, at this flow rate.
Water meters don't show flow rate, they show total water
Jed,
Agreed. The 18 hour test, assuming the observations we are given are fact,
would be conclusive.
I made the comment about someone flushing the toilet to demonstrate that some
of the momentary power spikes could be caused by correlating drops in water
pressure. There was no continuous
Robert's statement here, if true, would be tragically hilarious!
It's always possible that A.R.'s too stubborn to listen to criticism and, in
an effort to turn the
E-Cat down, - ended up turning it off.
That would be one for the history books!
-Mark
I found some Julian Brown here:
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=360cpage=7#comment-21219
He starts a long discussion here:
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=497cpage=5#comment-44502
I did not find any name Julian Brown related to EPO, except for an
inventor with this name:
http://www.google.com.br/search?q=site:www.epo.org+julian+brownnum=100hl=pt-BRsafe=offrls=com.microsoft:en-USrlz=1I7GGLL_pt-BRprmd=ivnsofilter=0biw=1280bih=653
On 2011-07-17 22:16, Daniel Rocha wrote:
I did not find any name Julian Brown related to EPO, except for an
inventor with this name:
Then it's possible that it isn't his real name or that he isn't related
with EPO or other patent offices. If the latter is the case, then I
guess Rossi might
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Akira Shirakawa
shirakawa.ak...@gmail.comwrote:
Hello group,
Andrea Rossi
July 17th, 2011 at 1:54 PM
Dear Paul Story:
Very funny: this clown, named Julian Brown, wrote me saying he was an
officer of the Patent Office and that he wanted give me suggestions.
Julian Brown wrote:
Basically, the whole set up defies even approximate quantitative
calorimetric analysis.
This is nonsensical speculation. E-Cat is designed to be a standard
boiling water reactor and boiling water reactor is exactly similar
setup than a kettle. And we know that tea pots do
http://ecatnews.com/?p=489#comment-85
Julian Brown
July 17, 2011 - 10:25 pm
Can i ask you, for the sake of my family, to remove my submission to your blog.
It was sent in good faith, because I really care about the LENR field
and don’t want it to suffer yet another set back, but I see I may have
At 04:30 PM 7/17/2011, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
On 2011-07-17 22:16, Daniel Rocha wrote:
I did not find any name Julian Brown related to EPO, except for an
inventor with this name:
Then it's possible that it isn't his real name or that he isn't
related with EPO or other patent offices. If the
At 07:19 PM 7/17/2011, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
Julian Brown wrote:
Basically, the whole set up defies even approximate quantitative
calorimetric analysis.
This is nonsensical speculation. E-Cat is designed to be a standard
boiling water reactor and boiling water reactor is exactly similar
At 07:20 PM 7/17/2011, Terry Blanton wrote:
http://ecatnews.com/?p=489#comment-85
Julian Brown
July 17, 2011 - 10:25 pm
Can i ask you, for the sake of my family, to remove my submission to
your blog.
It was sent in good faith, because I really care about the LENR field
and don't want it to
On 2011-07-18 02:16, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
That's quite a conclusion to jump to. Julian Brown claimed to be
employed by the EPO, but made no claim to be representing them. He's
also asked that his blog post be taken down:
I didn't investigate myself, and I was only talking about a
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
Did you read, Terry, what had been put up on the blog just before his
request? I don't wonder that he's worried.
No, sorry Abd, are you speaking of the Admin post; or of all the
references by Daniel? If the
2011/7/18 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
teapots don't have a fixed water flow input. Rather, water is added
when the level declines.
This is irrelevant difference. Water flow is there only to ensure that
water level does not drop below reactor core, so that core does not
expose to
At 09:14 PM 7/17/2011, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
So most of the time he now performs stress tests on his modules in
self-sustaining mode, apparently. That's an amazing claim! Just
demonstrating one of those running for a reasonable amount of time
would have rendered pointless most of the
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 6:19 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote:
Julian Brown wrote:
Basically, the whole set up defies even approximate quantitative
calorimetric analysis.
This is nonsensical speculation. E-Cat is designed to be a standard
boiling water reactor and boiling
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 8:11 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
a...@lomaxdesign.comwrote:
You've apparently missed a lot of the discussion here. There is an issue
with wet vs dry steam, and you are probably correct about the steam value,
but all bets are off if water actually starts to overflow.
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 8:14 PM, Akira Shirakawa
shirakawa.ak...@gmail.comwrote:
So most of the time he now performs stress tests on his modules in
self-sustaining mode, apparently. That's an amazing claim! Just
demonstrating one of those running for a reasonable amount of time would
have
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 10:40 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
a...@lomaxdesign.comwrote:
At 09:14 PM 7/17/2011, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
So most of the time he now performs stress tests on his modules in
self-sustaining mode, apparently. That's an amazing claim! Just
demonstrating one of those running
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