Re: [Vo]:FYI: SKINR gets Positive Heat Results, On-Going Contract Continues

[mixent]

In reply to  Mark Jurich's message of Fri, 9 Jun 2017 23:04:57 +:
Hi,
[snip]
>Can't elaborate much more, just heard it through the LENR GrapeVine.  Perhaps 
>it's somewhat old news (weeks old?), but thought I'd mention it in passing.

Perhaps you are referring to this?:-

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2017/01/prweb13961529.htm

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Bose Einstein Condensate formed at Room Temperature

[H LV]

On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 1:07 AM, H LV  wrote:

> animation explaining Joule's apparatus and his calculations.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yOhSIAIPRE
>
> Harry
>
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 11:43 PM, H LV  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Joule's apparatus used a spindle with paddles which was turned by a
>> falling weight outside the calorimeter. The motion of the falling weight
>> did not result in the generation of potential energy. It only resulted in
>> the warming of the water inside calorimeter. However, if the falling of the
>> weight were to wind up a spring in addition to turning of the paddle then
>> the same energy input - in the form gravitational potential energy (i.e.
>> the weight time the height through which the weight falls) would warm the
>> water AND store energy in the spring. According to Joule the amount of heat
>> generated is only a function of how far the weight falls. It is not a
>> function of how quickly it falls, so even if the spring slows the descent
>> of the weight the calorimeter will read the same rise in temperature with
>> or without the spring attached.
>> ​
>> This thought experiment demonstrates how two systems can have the same
>> energy input and generate the same temperatures but one can store energy
>> and the other can't.
>>
>> t
>
>
​
What I said above is not correct. In my thought experiment where I add a
spring to Joule's original experiment (described in the video link given
above) the amount of heat generated will be reduced because the weight will
fall more slowly as it has to overcome both the resistance of the water and
the spring.  What needs to be emphasized is that Joule's original
experiment implicitly assumes that the water does not store energy because
the the amount of heat generated is claimed to be only dependent on the
height the weight falls. Another way of stating this assumption is that all
the resistance experienced by the falling weight is converted into thermal
energy and none of it is stored energy.

Harry​

Re: [Vo]:FYI: SKINR gets Positive Heat Results, On-Going Contract Continues

[Jones Beene]

oops before that message went out, I remembered that Kucherov passed 
away prematurely a few years ago. Apologies.



On 6/9/2017 7:46 PM, Jones Beene wrote:

Mark Jurich wrote:
>
> Can’t elaborate much more, just heard it through the LENR 
Grapevine.  Perhaps it’s somewhat old news (weeks old?), but thought 
I’d mention it in passing.


> … Congrats to SKINR!

> Cheers, Mark Jurich

Cheers indeed. We wish that Mark's grapevine was a little riper. I 
have no idea what the details of this SKINR research consist of, but 
let me put forth a guess, more like a hope or some wishful thinking 
about what they could be doing - which would have the maximum impact 
on state of the art.


The future of LENR looks to me like it is going to involve laser 
irradiation. This expectation goes well beyond the work of Holmlid - 
which begs to be replicated. There is no indication that anyone who is 
well-funded is even attempting replication or their own experiments 
with lasers, however. The hope is that there is work going on which is 
under the radar despite a recent paper on a failure to replicate the 
Letts/Cravens effect.


As it turns out, Graham Hubler (many years ago) was considered a 
leading expert in pulsed laser deposition. He authored textbooks on 
the subject back in the 1990s. He also teamed with Yan Kucherovon a 
number of patents, and he too is an expert on pulsed lasers. There is 
no indication that this expertise with lasers in being used presently, 
however.


With or without lasers, let's hope this effort bears fruit and turns a 
bad year into a great vintage.

Re: [Vo]:FYI: SKINR gets Positive Heat Results, On-Going Contract Continues

[Jones Beene]

Mark Jurich wrote:
>
> Can’t elaborate much more, just heard it through the LENR Grapevine.  
Perhaps it’s somewhat old news (weeks old?), but thought I’d mention it 
in passing.


> … Congrats to SKINR!

> Cheers, Mark Jurich

Cheers indeed. We wish that Mark's grapevine was a little riper. I have 
no idea what the details of this SKINR research consist of, but let me 
put forth a guess, more like a hope or some wishful thinking about what 
they could be doing - which would have the maximum impact on state of 
the art.


The future of LENR looks to me like it is going to involve laser 
irradiation. This expectation goes well beyond the work of Holmlid - 
which begs to be replicated. There is no indication that anyone who is 
well-funded is even attempting replication or their own experiments with 
lasers, however. The hope is that there is work going on which is under 
the radar despite a recent paper on a failure to replicate the 
Letts/Cravens effect.


As it turns out, Graham Hubler (many years ago) was considered a leading 
expert in pulsed laser deposition. He authored textbooks on the subject 
back in the 1990s. He also teamed with Yan Kucherovon a number of 
patents, and he too is an expert on pulsed lasers. There is no 
indication that this expertise with lasers in being used presently, however.


With or without lasers, let's hope this effort bears fruit and turns a 
bad year into a great vintage.

Re: [Vo]:Bose Einstein Condensate formed at Room Temperature

[Axil Axil]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_superposition

https://phys.org/news/2015-01-atoms.html

Atoms can be in two places at the same time

One atom can also interfere with itself.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/62343/can-an-electron-interact-with-itself-to-create-interference

On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 6:04 PM,  wrote:

> In reply to  bobcook39...@hotmail.com's message of Fri, 9 Jun 2017
> 16:15:51
> +:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >To  add to Axil’s comments, it is my understanding that Bose particles (0
> or +/- integral intrinsic spin) can occupy the same energy states in  a
> coherent system.  This implies that that it is possible for two particles
> to be at the same location at the same time.
>
> No, it doesn't.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
>

[Vo]:FYI: SKINR gets Positive Heat Results, On-Going Contract Continues

[Mark Jurich]

Can't elaborate much more, just heard it through the LENR GrapeVine.  Perhaps 
it's somewhat old news (weeks old?), but thought I'd mention it in passing.

... Congrats to SKINR!

Cheers,
Mark Jurich

Re: [Vo]:FYI: unusual and extremely short-lived species of hydrogen

[Jones Beene]

 mix...@bigpond.com wrote:

> Not that I disagree, but there are other more mundane possibilities 
for a Hydrogen excess, such as storage in e.g. carbon nano-tubes, or 
Bucky-balls, etc. that may form naturally under some conditions. Other 
substances that act as a Hydrogen storage medium may also play a role. 
(Clathrates for Hydrogen?)


Yes, and there are many other compounds with hydrinos. There is one 
liquid - Ar(H2)2 which stores 9.2 % hydrogen but requires 
unrealistically high pressure.


It has probably been studied, since argon is a Mills catalyst. With 
hydrogen as a self-catalyst, that one could suddenly form hydrinos in a 
chain reaction... hey - is that what happened over Tunguska ?

Re: [Vo]:Bose Einstein Condensate formed at Room Temperature

[mixent]

In reply to  bobcook39...@hotmail.com's message of Fri, 9 Jun 2017 16:15:51
+:
Hi,
[snip]
>To  add to Axil’s comments, it is my understanding that Bose particles (0 or 
>+/- integral intrinsic spin) can occupy the same energy states in  a coherent 
>system.  This implies that that it is possible for two particles to be at the 
>same location at the same time. 

No, it doesn't.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:FYI: unusual and extremely short-lived species of hydrogen

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Fri, 9 Jun 2017 11:53:52 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>http://thunder-energies.com/index.php/ct-menu-item-3
[snip]
If you take away the cap and glasses from this photo, then he looks like an
older version of Mills. ;)
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:FYI: unusual and extremely short-lived species of hydrogen

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Fri, 9 Jun 2017 06:53:06 -0700:
Hi,

Not that I disagree, but there are other more mundane possibilities for a
Hydrogen excess, such as storage in e.g. carbon nano-tubes, or Bucky-balls, etc.
that may form naturally under some conditions. Other substances that act as a
Hydrogen storage medium may also play a role. (Clathrates for Hydrogen?)
[snip]
>There is a more interesting stable candidate for a species with a mass 
>of 5 amu - it is molecular H5 consisting of two molecules of H2 bound to 
>a core of UDH (ultra dense hydrogen). This molecule could explain many 
>well-known astrological mysteries such as the large amount of hydrogen 
>on certain comets and the Jovion moons.
>
>Molecular H5 would consist of 5 protons in a compact spatial 
>tetrahedron: having been formed from two molecules of normal hydrogen 
>(H2) magnetically bound to one reduced orbital atom of hydrogen (aka the 
>UDH, DDL, pychno ro hydrino). This dense hydrogen allotrope UDH would 
>have a very large magnetic self-field in the range of kiloT (thousands 
>of Tesla) and that field provides long-lived stability, especially in a 
>liquid phase for an allotrope.
>
>If this putative molecule were stable, it would be liquid  at mid-low 
>temperatures but much higher than expected; and it should show up in 
>cosmology in cold gas-giants like Jupiter. It could be a liquid at up to 
>200K. We might find it in the polar regions of Mars. There are some 
>tantalizing clues such as "lakes of liquid methane" on the Jovian moons 
>which seem to contain way too much hydrogen a temperature way above the 
>boiling point. In fact they appears to be mostly hydrogen. Comet tails 
>contain way too much hydrogen as well, since the comet is not cold 
>enough to retain LH.
>
>The tetrahedron is a favored platonic solid. A compact atom of HDH at 
>the core of 4 protons in a tetrahedron would be a candidate for 
>explaining anomalies involving the appearance of liquid hydrogen at 
>temperatures where hydrogen cannot be liquid.
>
>
>
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Bose Einstein Condensate formed at Room Temperature

[Axil Axil]

Bose condensation of polaritons is what thermalized gamma radiation (super
absorption) produced by LENR based nuclear reactions.

Before a BEC of polaritons is established in the LENR reaction, the LENR
reaction lets gamma radiation pass through the individual polaritons.

But after the BEC of polaritons is established, a state change occurs
and a Bremsstrahlung
signal is generated in a polariton synchronization process where the
polaritons synchronize the energy between each other.


This Bremsstrahlung has been detected in MFMP tests just before excess heat
was produced in the LENR reaction.  It has been called "the Signal" by MFMP.


After the polariton BEC is established a single radiation frequency is
produced by the BEC. That frequency is a function of the density of
polaritons in the BEC. This frequency can change second to second as the
density of polaritons in the BEC varies.

See


"They tackled this problem by highly exciting exciton-polaritons, which are
particle-like excitations in a semiconductor systems and formed by strong
coupling between electron-hole pairs and photons. They observed high-energy
side-peak emission that cannot be explained by two mechanisms known to
date: Bose-Einstein condensation of exciton-polaritons, nor conventional
semiconductor lasing driven by the optical gain from unbound electron hole
plasma."

Marrying superconductors, lasers, and Bose-Einstein condensates

Read more at:
https://phys.org/news/2016-06-superconductors-lasers-bose-einstein-condensates.html#jCp

This polariton based emission of light is where the XUV light emissions
comes from in the SunCell.

On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 2:37 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> https://arxiv.org/pdf/1509.05264
>
> Disorder, synchronization and phase locking in non-equilibrium
> Bose-Einstein condensates
>
> There is a kind of Bose condinsation that can exist at any temperature and
> applies to polaritons.
>
> To draw an analogy, consider an array of funnels that are each being
> filled at a different rate. But the funnels are entangled in a condinsate.
> These funnels are losing liquid at the same rate but are being filled at
> different rates. We would expect that there would be some funnels that
> would overflow, but all the funnels maintain the same liquid level. All the
> funnels share liquid between each other to maintain the same level of
> fluid. The liquid that would have overflowed is shared between the funnels
> through and entangled liquid transfer interface. Any funnel that has a low
> level of liquid input would maintain its level through the additional
> entangled transfer of liquid with and between other funnels with a more
> that average liquid filling rates.
>
> This is how a collection of "N" polaritons act like one huge single
> polariton with N members. This huge single polariton can store a
> huge amount of energy in its condinsate. It can absorb a huge amount of
> energy (super-absorption) but most importantly, any single polariton can
> access  all the energy stored in the condinsate (super-radiance) and can
> use that energy to disrupt nuclear functions in a single nucleus.
>
> This Bose condinsate condition can exist at ANY temperature and depends
> only on the special nature of polaritons to exist.
>
> On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 12:15 PM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
> bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ftrank—
>>
>>
>>
>> To  add to Axil’s comments, it is my understanding that Bose particles (0
>> or +/- integral intrinsic spin) can occupy the same energy states in  a
>> coherent system.  This implies that that it is possible for two particles
>> to be at the same location at the same time.  For Bose particles with a
>> magnetic moment—non-0 spin—a magnetic field will degenerate (reduce the
>> possible locations and energy states) the coherent system “allows” for its
>> constituent particles.
>>
>>
>>
>> This may  make it more likely that the wave function of 2Bose particles
>> over lap and promote a system reaction involving no immediate loss of
>> energy, only a change in the coherent system’s configuration of constituent
>> particles with greater kinetic energy and less potential energy tied up in
>> force fields.
>>
>>
>>
>> The new kinetic energy is spin angular momentum, exhibited as phonic
>> energy (thermal energy) of the entire coherent system—the nickel lattice.
>>
>>
>>
>> The nickel latticed is cooled by some mechanism or mechanisms.  IMHO Li
>> vapor and hydrogen gas or Cooper pairs of hydrogen are part of a convective
>> cooling medium surrounding each nano- particle or clumps of particles.
>>
>>
>>
>> The complex engineering of the coherent systems, the control system which
>> changes the probability of a reaction, anti-clumping conditions, and the
>> cooling system suggested by the above conceptual reactor design  is the
>> reason why LENR+ has taken so long for folks with small budgets to succeed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Cook
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Axil Axil 

Re: [Vo]:FYI: unusual and extremely short-lived species of hydrogen

[Jones Beene]

One more note on the possibility of a stable molecular allotrope of 
hydrogen of mass-5 which can be formed from dense hydrogen plus regular 
hydrogen. The species has been observed, and the evidence is fairly strong


Many have mixed opinions on the work of Dr Ruggero Santilli - the 
controversial discoverer of what he calls "magnegas" which is similar to 
Browns gas (made by electrolysis of water) ... who has a reputation for 
suing everyone who disagrees with him (including Infinite Energy 
magazine). Here is a reference to his work.


http://www.i-b-r.org/docs/FuelsMagnecularf.pdf.

Anyway, an independent lab tested the output of one of his devices, 
which was hooked up directly to a mass spectrometer and found that in 
addition to the expected products (H2 and O2) there was a very strong 
signal from a gas of 5 amu. This looks like good evidence. Santilli 
claims the gas is much more energetic than H2.


His new company is Thunder Energies and has real products (mostly optics)

http://thunder-energies.com/index.php/ct-menu-item-3

This press release should appeal to Widom-Larsen followers

http://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2017/05/30/134/0/en/Scientists-Confirm-the-Synthesis-of-Neutrons-from-a-Hydrogen-Gas-by-Thunder-Energies-Corporation.html

---



There is a more interesting stable candidate for a species with a mass 
of 5 amu - it is molecular H5 consisting of two molecules of H2 bound 
to a core of UDH (ultra dense hydrogen). This molecule could explain 
many well-known cosmological mysteries such as the large amount of 
hydrogen on certain comets and the Jovion moons which are not cold 
enough for liquid hydrogen.


Molecular H5 would consist of 5 protons in a compact spatial 
tetrahedron: having been formed from two molecules of normal hydrogen 
(H2) magnetically bound to one reduced orbital atom of hydrogen (aka 
the UDH, DDL, pychno ro hydrino). The dense hydrogen species would 
have a very large magnetic self-field in the range of kiloT (thousands 
of Tesla) and that field provides long-lived stability, especially in 
a liquid phase.


If this putative molecule were stable, it would be liquid  at mid-low 
temperatures but much higher than expected - up to 200K. We might find 
it in the polar regions of Mars. There are tantalizing clues such as 
"lakes of liquid methane" on the Jovian moons which seem to contain 
way too much hydrogen a temperature far above the boiling point. In 
fact the "lakes" appear to be mostly hydrogen. Comet tails contain way 
too much hydrogen as well, since the comet is not cold enough to 
retain LH.

Re: [Vo]:Bose Einstein Condensate formed at Room Temperature

[Axil Axil]

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1509.05264

Disorder, synchronization and phase locking in non-equilibrium
Bose-Einstein condensates

There is a kind of Bose condinsation that can exist at any temperature and
applies to polaritons.

To draw an analogy, consider an array of funnels that are each being
filled at a different rate. But the funnels are entangled in a condinsate.
These funnels are losing liquid at the same rate but are being filled at
different rates. We would expect that there would be some funnels that
would overflow, but all the funnels maintain the same liquid level. All the
funnels share liquid between each other to maintain the same level of
fluid. The liquid that would have overflowed is shared between the funnels
through and entangled liquid transfer interface. Any funnel that has a low
level of liquid input would maintain its level through the additional
entangled transfer of liquid with and between other funnels with a more
that average liquid filling rates.

This is how a collection of "N" polaritons act like one huge single
polariton with N members. This huge single polariton can store a
huge amount of energy in its condinsate. It can absorb a huge amount of
energy (super-absorption) but most importantly, any single polariton can
access  all the energy stored in the condinsate (super-radiance) and can
use that energy to disrupt nuclear functions in a single nucleus.

This Bose condinsate condition can exist at ANY temperature and depends
only on the special nature of polaritons to exist.

On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 12:15 PM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Ftrank—
>
>
>
> To  add to Axil’s comments, it is my understanding that Bose particles (0
> or +/- integral intrinsic spin) can occupy the same energy states in  a
> coherent system.  This implies that that it is possible for two particles
> to be at the same location at the same time.  For Bose particles with a
> magnetic moment—non-0 spin—a magnetic field will degenerate (reduce the
> possible locations and energy states) the coherent system “allows” for its
> constituent particles.
>
>
>
> This may  make it more likely that the wave function of 2Bose particles
> over lap and promote a system reaction involving no immediate loss of
> energy, only a change in the coherent system’s configuration of constituent
> particles with greater kinetic energy and less potential energy tied up in
> force fields.
>
>
>
> The new kinetic energy is spin angular momentum, exhibited as phonic
> energy (thermal energy) of the entire coherent system—the nickel lattice.
>
>
>
> The nickel latticed is cooled by some mechanism or mechanisms.  IMHO Li
> vapor and hydrogen gas or Cooper pairs of hydrogen are part of a convective
> cooling medium surrounding each nano- particle or clumps of particles.
>
>
>
> The complex engineering of the coherent systems, the control system which
> changes the probability of a reaction, anti-clumping conditions, and the
> cooling system suggested by the above conceptual reactor design  is the
> reason why LENR+ has taken so long for folks with small budgets to succeed.
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Axil Axil 
> *Sent: *Thursday, June 8, 2017 9:54 AM
> *To: *vortexallows for-l 
> *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:Bose Einstein Condensate formed at Room Temperature
>
>
>
> A Bose condinsate brings super radiance and super absorption into play.
> These mechanisms produce concentration, storage,  and amplification of low
> level energy and goes as "N", the number of items in the condinsate.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Frank Znidarsic 
> wrote:
>
> Why is a Bose Condensate needed?  Its a matter of size and energy.  The
> smaller the size of something we want to see the more energy it takes.
> Using low energy radar you will never be able to read something as small as
> this text.  You need to go to UV energies to study atoms.  Higher ionizing
> energies are needed to study the nuclear forces.  Really high energy
> accelerator energies are required to look at subatomic particles.
>
>
>
> The common complaint physicists have with cold fusion is that the energy
> levels are to low to induce any type of nuclear reaction.  They never,
> however, considered the energy levels of a large hundreds of atoms wide
> condensed nano-particle.  Its energy levels are quite low.  Warm thermal
> vibrations appear to the nano particle as a high energy excitation.  This
> again is a matter of its size.  It's not cracks, or shrunken atoms at
> work.  It is the thermal excitation of a nano particle that yields the
> required energy.
>
>
>
> Again the simulation induces a velocity of one million meters per second.
>
>
>
> Frank Z
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Second Jung paper from J. Soc. Mat. Sci.

[Jed Rothwell]

Here is an improved version of the Jung paper, with some corrections to the
text, and the images added.

http://lenr-canr.org/Collections/JungDamagemechanism.pdf

RE: [Vo]:Bose Einstein Condensate formed at Room Temperature

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Ftrank—

To  add to Axil’s comments, it is my understanding that Bose particles (0 or 
+/- integral intrinsic spin) can occupy the same energy states in  a coherent 
system.  This implies that that it is possible for two particles to be at the 
same location at the same time.  For Bose particles with a magnetic 
moment—non-0 spin—a magnetic field will degenerate (reduce the possible 
locations and energy states) the coherent system “allows” for its constituent 
particles.

This may  make it more likely that the wave function of 2Bose particles over 
lap and promote a system reaction involving no immediate loss of energy, only a 
change in the coherent system’s configuration of constituent particles with 
greater kinetic energy and less potential energy tied up in force fields.

The new kinetic energy is spin angular momentum, exhibited as phonic energy 
(thermal energy) of the entire coherent system—the nickel lattice.

The nickel latticed is cooled by some mechanism or mechanisms.  IMHO Li  vapor 
and hydrogen gas or Cooper pairs of hydrogen are part of a convective cooling 
medium surrounding each nano- particle or clumps of particles.

The complex engineering of the coherent systems, the control system which 
changes the probability of a reaction, anti-clumping conditions, and the 
cooling system suggested by the above conceptual reactor design  is the reason 
why LENR+ has taken so long for folks with small budgets to succeed.

Bob Cook


From: Axil Axil
Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2017 9:54 AM
To: vortexallows for-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Bose Einstein Condensate formed at Room Temperature

A Bose condinsate brings super radiance and super absorption into play. These 
mechanisms produce concentration, storage,  and amplification of low level 
energy and goes as "N", the number of items in the condinsate.

On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Frank Znidarsic 
> wrote:
Why is a Bose Condensate needed?  Its a matter of size and energy.  The smaller 
the size of something we want to see the more energy it takes.  Using low 
energy radar you will never be able to read something as small as this text.  
You need to go to UV energies to study atoms.  Higher ionizing energies are 
needed to study the nuclear forces.  Really high energy accelerator energies 
are required to look at subatomic particles.

The common complaint physicists have with cold fusion is that the energy levels 
are to low to induce any type of nuclear reaction.  They never, however, 
considered the energy levels of a large hundreds of atoms wide condensed 
nano-particle.  Its energy levels are quite low.  Warm thermal vibrations 
appear to the nano particle as a high energy excitation.  This again is a 
matter of its size.  It's not cracks, or shrunken atoms at work.  It is the 
thermal excitation of a nano particle that yields the required energy.

Again the simulation induces a velocity of one million meters per second.

Frank Z

Re: [Vo]:Bose Einstein Condensate formed at Room Temperature

[H LV]

On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 1:42 AM, H LV  wrote:

>
> On Jun 7, 2017 10:06 AM, "Jed Rothwell"  wrote:
> >
> > H LV  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Joule's apparatus used a spindle with paddles which was turned by a
> falling weight outside the calorimeter. The motion of the falling weight
> did not result in the generation of potential energy.
> >
> >
> > That was a different experiment. I was referring to one in which he
> wound a spring inside a calorimeter.
> >
> > - Jed
> >
>
> The passage you cite mentions that Joule is concerned that when a spring
> is wound it does not produce heat. If a gas behaved like a spring in
> addition to heating up when compressed then it would be incorrect to infer
> the  heat energy of the gas from its temperature.
>
> Harry
>
​
Developing this idea further...

​Take gas Z and apply some special treatment to it and call it gas Z*.
Perform some mechanical work on gas Z* by compressing.  it. As expected the
temperature of gas Z* rises with the compression, but curiously the
temperature sometimes rises again long after the compression has occurred.

One approach to explaining this behaviour is to hypothesize that gas Z*
consists of a difficult to understand structure which is capable of storing
energy from compression and then releasing it at a later time under
circumstances which are poorly understood.

As a test of the hypothesis, the same mechanical work is performed on the
untreated gas Z in the hope that it will exhibit a greater temperature rise
under compression which would indicate that gas Z* stored energy during
compression. Unfortunately the test reveals no difference so it appears the
storage hypothesis is untenable. However, this interpretation rests on the
assumption that the gases should differ in their capacity to store energy.
On the other hand, there is another valid interpretation which says both
gases store energy but only the treated gas has the capacity to release of
energy.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:FYI: unusual and extremely short-lived species of hydrogen

[Jones Beene]

MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:
>
> “Researchers study unusual and extremely short-lived species of hydrogen”
https://phys.org/news/2017-06-unusual-extremely-short-lived-species-hydrogen.html

Interesting find. To make the 5H atom, the researchers used a reaction 
that removed a single proton from a 6He nuclei produced by the National 
Superconducting Cyclotron Facility. The 6He (atomic helium-6) target 
loses a single proton and the remaining proton retains 4 neutrons. The 
result is short-lived 5H (atomic hydrogen-5). This isotope is not new 
and has been made from tritium before this paper.


There is a more interesting stable candidate for a species with a mass 
of 5 amu - it is molecular H5 consisting of two molecules of H2 bound to 
a core of UDH (ultra dense hydrogen). This molecule could explain many 
well-known astrological mysteries such as the large amount of hydrogen 
on certain comets and the Jovion moons.


Molecular H5 would consist of 5 protons in a compact spatial 
tetrahedron: having been formed from two molecules of normal hydrogen 
(H2) magnetically bound to one reduced orbital atom of hydrogen (aka the 
UDH, DDL, pychno ro hydrino). This dense hydrogen allotrope UDH would 
have a very large magnetic self-field in the range of kiloT (thousands 
of Tesla) and that field provides long-lived stability, especially in a 
liquid phase for an allotrope.


If this putative molecule were stable, it would be liquid  at mid-low 
temperatures but much higher than expected; and it should show up in 
cosmology in cold gas-giants like Jupiter. It could be a liquid at up to 
200K. We might find it in the polar regions of Mars. There are some 
tantalizing clues such as "lakes of liquid methane" on the Jovian moons 
which seem to contain way too much hydrogen a temperature way above the 
boiling point. In fact they appears to be mostly hydrogen. Comet tails 
contain way too much hydrogen as well, since the comet is not cold 
enough to retain LH.


The tetrahedron is a favored platonic solid. A compact atom of HDH at 
the core of 4 protons in a tetrahedron would be a candidate for 
explaining anomalies involving the appearance of liquid hydrogen at 
temperatures where hydrogen cannot be liquid.