Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[AlanG]

Initial tests will use only Ni and Ag powders, to see if extended 
ball-milling can create a nano-scale amalgam where true alloying is not 
possible.
The first test run is now underway, and details can be seen in the 
Google Live Doc at https://goo.gl/rTDz87


AlanG

On 7/1/2017 2:25 AM, Eric Walker wrote:
On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 3:29 PM, > wrote:


Mills has previously obtained results with Molybdenum. If this is
available as a nano-powder off the shelf, it may prove interesting.


Alan G., I would also be interested in your taking a look at neodymium.

Eric


 
	Virus-free. www.avg.com 
 



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[Eric Walker]

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 3:29 PM,  wrote:

Mills has previously obtained results with Molybdenum. If this is available
> as a nano-powder off the shelf, it may prove interesting.
>

Alan G., I would also be interested in your taking a look at neodymium.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[mixent]

In reply to  bobcook39...@hotmail.com's message of Wed, 21 Jun 2017 02:17:00
+:
Hi,

Not to mention that Hg should be a Mills catalyst...reason for the old Indian
tales of mercury powered flying machines perhaps? ;)


>Alan—
>
>
>  1.  A reduction process of the powers to get rid of Oxides would be 
> desirable IMHO.
>
>
>  1.  Separation of the particles during milling is warranted.  Liquid 
> Nitrogen will work but complicates the milling ops.
>
>
>
>  1.  For room temperature milling  or a bit higher temperature a bit of Hg 
> (liquid or vapor) in a trial run may cause better mixing and actually result 
> in an amalgam type bonding between silver and nickel.  It could also change 
> the LENR potential by modifying magnetic response and resonances.
>
>
>Good luck,
>
>Bob Cook
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>
>From: AlanG<mailto:a...@magicsound.us>
>Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 5:19 PM
>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?
>
>Nickel and Silver are mutually insoluble (or only with great difficulty) as 
>has been pointed out. Following Jones' original post, I'm preparing a simple 
>experiment to test "mechanical alloying". I will ball-mill ~2 um powders of 
>the two metals for several hundred hours, using 3/8" tungsten carbide balls 
>for media. SEM/EDS will be used to examine the resulting mixture.
>
>If the results appear to be successful, a further test will be done by 
>exposing the amalgam to flowing hydrogen at various temperatures, looking for 
>radiation as a signature of nuclear activity. Advice and suggestions for this 
>test are welcome.
>
>AlanG
>On 6/19/2017 7:46 PM, 
>bobcook39...@hotmail.com<mailto:bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Jones and Bob—
>
>Bob is correct rfegarding terminology for alloys.  An alloy has an ionic bond 
>between metallic nuclei as I understand.   But those bonds may only occur at 
>grain boundaries with individual grains of the “quasi-alloy” being in bulk one 
>or the other metallic element.
>
>However the smaller the grains, the more ionic bi-metallic alloy you get.
>
>With this concept in mind starting a manufacturing process for Ni-Ag “alloy” 
>would use nano sized metallic particles and proiceed to obtain a homogeneous 
>mixture of the two metals, evacuate the mixture and hot press the mixture with 
>various sintering times to allow a variety of heats and  LENR properties.
>
>Homogeneous mixing is the key.  Cryogenic conditions using a liquid gas such 
>as nitrogen or helium may help avoid clumping of like metal particles during 
>mixing.  Jones suggestion of a rapid ball milling procedure (with an inert 
>cryogenic fluid) may work well.  Maybe merely a tumbling mixing would work.  
>However, I would guess that ball milling would further attrite the Ni  and or 
>Ag nano-particles and assure good mixing.
>
>The N or helium should coat each particle with  atoms to avoid clumping.  When 
>the fluid mixture is poured in to a hot press mold evacuated and hot pressed, 
>the individual Ni and Ag particles should remain well mixed as the N gas (or 
>other gas) evaporates from its position around reach individual particle.   
>Boundary exchange of particle nuclei may then occur at temperature.
>
>An interesting alternative would be to use liquid H with precautions to handle 
>a reaction should LENR conditions be right.  This may result in a bi-metallic 
>hydride ripe for LENR with correct resonant stimulation and ambient magnetic 
>conditions.
>
>SAFETY IS A CRITICAL CONSIDERATION IMHO.
>
>Bob Cook
>
>
>Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>
>From: Bob Higgins<mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com>
>Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 7:41 AM
>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
>Subject: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?
>
>Jones,  As you have discussed, the Type A Pd that appears to be LENR active is 
>an actual alloy.  In an alloy you expect an atomic level crystal lattice 
>alteration - the lattice constants of the alloy are uniform and different than 
>with Pd alone.  However, what you describe as a "mechanical alloy" is unlikely 
>to be anything other than an admixture of grains of Ag with grains of Ni.  An 
>"alloy" and a "mechanical alloy" are two vastly different things.  It is sort 
>of like the nickel silver not having any silver - the mechanical alloy has no 
>alloy.
>True alloying would alter the lattice constants by creating a new crystal 
>structure incorporating the alloy

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[Alain Sepeda]

Is there usually some Mn in Constantan too ?
It may be key ingredient, as for alpha-beta phase frontiere, it change
critical temperature like Ag on Pd...

2017-06-20 23:30 GMT+02:00 Bob Higgins :

> If you want Ni + Cu, just get some constantan thermocouple wire and cut it
> up into pieces.  Then you may want to ball mill to make into powder.
>
> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:43 PM,  wrote:
>
>> In reply to  AlanG's message of Mon, 19 Jun 2017 23:22:32 +:
>> Hi Alan,
>>
>> You might also try with Cu instead of silver, if your budget extends that
>> far.
>> Since the creation of the powders takes some time, you could do both in
>> parallel?
>>
>> >Nickel and Silver are mutually insoluble (or only with great difficulty)
>> >as has been pointed out. Following Jones' original post, I'm preparing a
>> >simple experiment to test "mechanical alloying". I will ball-mill ~2 um
>> >powders of the two metals for several hundred hours, using 3/8" tungsten
>> >carbide balls for media. SEM/EDS will be used to examine the resulting
>> >mixture.
>> >
>> >If the results appear to be successful, a further test will be done by
>> >exposing the amalgam to flowing hydrogen at various temperatures,
>> >looking for radiation as a signature of nuclear activity. Advice and
>> >suggestions for this test are welcome.
>> >
>> >AlanG
>> >
>> Regards,
>>
>> Robin van Spaandonk
>>
>> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>>
>>
>

RE: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Alan—


  1.  A reduction process of the powers to get rid of Oxides would be desirable 
IMHO.


  1.  Separation of the particles during milling is warranted.  Liquid Nitrogen 
will work but complicates the milling ops.



  1.  For room temperature milling  or a bit higher temperature a bit of Hg 
(liquid or vapor) in a trial run may cause better mixing and actually result in 
an amalgam type bonding between silver and nickel.  It could also change the 
LENR potential by modifying magnetic response and resonances.


Good luck,

Bob Cook











Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: AlanG<mailto:a...@magicsound.us>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 5:19 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

Nickel and Silver are mutually insoluble (or only with great difficulty) as has 
been pointed out. Following Jones' original post, I'm preparing a simple 
experiment to test "mechanical alloying". I will ball-mill ~2 um powders of the 
two metals for several hundred hours, using 3/8" tungsten carbide balls for 
media. SEM/EDS will be used to examine the resulting mixture.

If the results appear to be successful, a further test will be done by exposing 
the amalgam to flowing hydrogen at various temperatures, looking for radiation 
as a signature of nuclear activity. Advice and suggestions for this test are 
welcome.

AlanG
On 6/19/2017 7:46 PM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com<mailto:bobcook39...@hotmail.com> 
wrote:
Jones and Bob—

Bob is correct rfegarding terminology for alloys.  An alloy has an ionic bond 
between metallic nuclei as I understand.   But those bonds may only occur at 
grain boundaries with individual grains of the “quasi-alloy” being in bulk one 
or the other metallic element.

However the smaller the grains, the more ionic bi-metallic alloy you get.

With this concept in mind starting a manufacturing process for Ni-Ag “alloy” 
would use nano sized metallic particles and proiceed to obtain a homogeneous 
mixture of the two metals, evacuate the mixture and hot press the mixture with 
various sintering times to allow a variety of heats and  LENR properties.

Homogeneous mixing is the key.  Cryogenic conditions using a liquid gas such as 
nitrogen or helium may help avoid clumping of like metal particles during 
mixing.  Jones suggestion of a rapid ball milling procedure (with an inert 
cryogenic fluid) may work well.  Maybe merely a tumbling mixing would work.  
However, I would guess that ball milling would further attrite the Ni  and or 
Ag nano-particles and assure good mixing.

The N or helium should coat each particle with  atoms to avoid clumping.  When 
the fluid mixture is poured in to a hot press mold evacuated and hot pressed, 
the individual Ni and Ag particles should remain well mixed as the N gas (or 
other gas) evaporates from its position around reach individual particle.   
Boundary exchange of particle nuclei may then occur at temperature.

An interesting alternative would be to use liquid H with precautions to handle 
a reaction should LENR conditions be right.  This may result in a bi-metallic 
hydride ripe for LENR with correct resonant stimulation and ambient magnetic 
conditions.

SAFETY IS A CRITICAL CONSIDERATION IMHO.

Bob Cook


Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Bob Higgins<mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 7:41 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

Jones,  As you have discussed, the Type A Pd that appears to be LENR active is 
an actual alloy.  In an alloy you expect an atomic level crystal lattice 
alteration - the lattice constants of the alloy are uniform and different than 
with Pd alone.  However, what you describe as a "mechanical alloy" is unlikely 
to be anything other than an admixture of grains of Ag with grains of Ni.  An 
"alloy" and a "mechanical alloy" are two vastly different things.  It is sort 
of like the nickel silver not having any silver - the mechanical alloy has no 
alloy.
True alloying would alter the lattice constants by creating a new crystal 
structure incorporating the alloy metal at the basic atomic crystallographic 
level; hopefully in a way that allows more H to enter the lattice.  Also, 
forming a true alloy would potentially lower the vacancy formation energy of 
the Ni; which, in some theories would raise the LENR rate.  OTOH, if a 
"mechanical alloy" is formed, the only difference achieved will be creation of 
dirty grain boundaries between solid grains of Ni and Ag.  It is possible that 
effects could occur at such grain boundaries, so it can't hurt to try.  It is 
just hard to envision what would promote LENR by creating a "mechanical alloy".

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Jones Beene 
&l

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[mixent]

In reply to  AlanG's message of Mon, 19 Jun 2017 23:22:32 +:
Hi Alan,

You might also try with Cu instead of silver, if your budget extends that far.
Since the creation of the powders takes some time, you could do both in
parallel?

>Nickel and Silver are mutually insoluble (or only with great difficulty) 
>as has been pointed out. Following Jones' original post, I'm preparing a 
>simple experiment to test "mechanical alloying". I will ball-mill ~2 um 
>powders of the two metals for several hundred hours, using 3/8" tungsten 
>carbide balls for media. SEM/EDS will be used to examine the resulting 
>mixture.
>
>If the results appear to be successful, a further test will be done by 
>exposing the amalgam to flowing hydrogen at various temperatures, 
>looking for radiation as a signature of nuclear activity. Advice and 
>suggestions for this test are welcome.
>
>AlanG
>
>On 6/19/2017 7:46 PM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Jones and Bob—
>>
>> Bob is correct rfegarding terminology for alloys.  An alloy has an 
>> ionic bond between metallic nuclei as I understand.   But those bonds 
>> may only occur at grain boundaries with individual grains of the 
>> “quasi-alloy” being in bulk one or the other metallic element.
>>
>> However the smaller the grains, the more ionic bi-metallic alloy you get.
>>
>> With this concept in mind starting a manufacturing process for Ni-Ag 
>> “alloy” would use nano sized metallic particles and proiceed to obtain 
>> a homogeneous mixture of the two metals, evacuate the mixture and hot 
>> press the mixture with various sintering times to allow a variety of 
>> heats and  LENR properties.
>>
>> Homogeneous mixing is the key.  Cryogenic conditions using a liquid 
>> gas such as nitrogen or helium may help avoid clumping of like metal 
>> particles during mixing. Jones suggestion of a rapid ball milling 
>> procedure (with an inert cryogenic fluid) may work well.  Maybe merely 
>> a tumbling mixing would work.  However, I would guess that ball 
>> milling would further attrite the Ni  and or Ag nano-particles and 
>> assure good mixing.
>>
>> The N or helium should coat each particle with  atoms to avoid 
>> clumping.  When the fluid mixture is poured in to a hot press mold 
>> evacuated and hot pressed, the individual Ni and Ag particles should 
>> remain well mixed as the N gas (or other gas) evaporates from its 
>> position around reach individual particle.   Boundary exchange of 
>> particle nuclei may then occur at temperature.
>>
>> An interesting alternative would be to use liquid H with precautions 
>> to handle a reaction should LENR conditions be right.  This may result 
>> in a bi-metallic hydride ripe for LENR with correct resonant 
>> stimulation and ambient magnetic conditions.
>>
>> SAFETY IS A CRITICAL CONSIDERATION IMHO.
>>
>> Bob Cook
>>
>> Sent from Mail  for 
>> Windows 10
>>
>> *From: *Bob Higgins 
>> *Sent: *Monday, June 19, 2017 7:41 AM
>> *To: *vortex-l@eskimo.com 
>> *Subject: *[Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?
>>
>> Jones,  As you have discussed, the Type A Pd that appears to be LENR 
>> active is an actual alloy.  In an alloy you expect an atomic level 
>> crystal lattice alteration - the lattice constants of the alloy are 
>> uniform and different than with Pd alone.  However, what you describe 
>> as a "mechanical alloy" is unlikely to be anything other than an 
>> admixture of grains of Ag with grains of Ni.  An "alloy" and a 
>> "mechanical alloy" are two vastly different things.  It is sort of 
>> like the nickel silver not having any silver - the mechanical alloy 
>> has no alloy.
>>
>> True alloying would alter the lattice constants by creating a new 
>> crystal structure incorporating the alloy metal at the basic atomic 
>> crystallographic level; hopefully in a way that allows more H to enter 
>> the lattice. Also, forming a true alloy would potentially lower the 
>> vacancy formation energy of the Ni; which, in some theories would 
>> raise the LENR rate.  OTOH, if a "mechanical alloy" is formed, the 
>> only difference achieved will be creation of dirty grain boundaries 
>> between solid grains of Ni and Ag.  It is possible that effects could 
>> occur at such grain boundaries, so it can't hurt to try.  It is just 
>> hard to envision what would promote LENR by creating a "mechanical alloy".
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Jones Beene > > wrote:
>>
>>
>> One further detail about the possible advantage of using silver
>> alloyed with nickel in LENR, instead of pure nickel - with
>> hydrogen as the gaseous reactant, instead of deuterium.
>>
>> If this were to work for LENR gain, the identity of the nuclear
>> reaction is not the same. Obviously, such an alloy as Ni-Ag
>> (assuming it is made via mechanical alloying)... would be unlikely
>> to produce 

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:41:05 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>http://google.com/patents/US9023754

Mills has previously obtained results with Molybdenum. If this is available as a
nano-powder off the shelf, it may prove interesting.
[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[AlanG]

The experiment log for AURA (me356) is at
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puq-FskyCZyFlshjBF4AF53TEB9tzgWQO2My0hVFGsg

There are links to the data files in that document, but no post-analysis 
has been done.


To summarize, we consider it a good null experiment. Some ultrasonic and 
RF signals were seen, but no other (nuclear) radiation was detected, and 
no excess heat.


AlanG

On 6/20/2017 9:17 AM, Brian Ahern wrote:


Alan, where is your report on Me356/?


*From:* AlanG <a...@magicsound.us>
*Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2017 7:22 PM
*To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
*Subject:* Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?
Nickel and Silver are mutually insoluble (or only with great 
difficulty) as has been pointed out. Following Jones' original post, 
I'm preparing a simple experiment to test "mechanical alloying". I 
will ball-mill ~2 um powders of the two metals for several hundred 
hours, using 3/8" tungsten carbide balls for media. SEM/EDS will be 
used to examine the resulting mixture.


If the results appear to be successful, a further test will be done by 
exposing the amalgam to flowing hydrogen at various temperatures, 
looking for radiation as a signature of nuclear activity. Advice and 
suggestions for this test are welcome.


AlanG

On 6/19/2017 7:46 PM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com wrote:


Jones and Bob—

Bob is correct rfegarding terminology for alloys.  An alloy has an 
ionic bond between metallic nuclei as I understand.   But those bonds 
may only occur at grain boundaries with individual grains of the 
“quasi-alloy” being in bulk one or the other metallic element.


However the smaller the grains, the more ionic bi-metallic alloy you 
get.


With this concept in mind starting a manufacturing process for Ni-Ag 
“alloy” would use nano sized metallic particles and proiceed to 
obtain a homogeneous mixture of the two metals, evacuate the mixture 
and hot press the mixture with various sintering times to allow a 
variety of heats and  LENR properties.


Homogeneous mixing is the key. Cryogenic conditions using a liquid 
gas such as nitrogen or helium may help avoid clumping of like metal 
particles during mixing.  Jones suggestion of a rapid ball milling 
procedure (with an inert cryogenic fluid) may work well.  Maybe 
merely a tumbling mixing would work.  However, I would guess that 
ball milling would further attrite the Ni  and or Ag nano-particles 
and assure good mixing.


The N or helium should coat each particle with  atoms to avoid 
clumping.  When the fluid mixture is poured in to a hot press mold 
evacuated and hot pressed, the individual Ni and Ag particles should 
remain well mixed as the N gas (or other gas) evaporates from its 
position around reach individual particle.   Boundary exchange of 
particle nuclei may then occur at temperature.


An interesting alternative would be to use liquid H with precautions 
to handle a reaction should LENR conditions be right.  This may 
result in a bi-metallic hydride ripe for LENR with correct resonant 
stimulation and ambient magnetic conditions.


SAFETY IS A CRITICAL CONSIDERATION IMHO.

Bob Cook

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
Windows 10


*From: *Bob Higgins <mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com>
*Sent: *Monday, June 19, 2017 7:41 AM
*To: *vortex-l@eskimo.com <mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
*Subject: *[Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

Jones, As you have discussed, the Type A Pd that appears to be LENR 
active is an actual alloy.  In an alloy you expect an atomic level 
crystal lattice alteration - the lattice constants of the alloy are 
uniform and different than with Pd alone.  However, what you describe 
as a "mechanical alloy" is unlikely to be anything other than an 
admixture of grains of Ag with grains of Ni.  An "alloy" and a 
"mechanical alloy" are two vastly different things.  It is sort of 
like the nickel silver not having any silver - the mechanical alloy 
has no alloy.


True alloying would alter the lattice constants by creating a new 
crystal structure incorporating the alloy metal at the basic atomic 
crystallographic level; hopefully in a way that allows more H to 
enter the lattice.  Also, forming a true alloy would potentially 
lower the vacancy formation energy of the Ni; which, in some theories 
would raise the LENR rate.  OTOH, if a "mechanical alloy" is formed, 
the only difference achieved will be creation of dirty grain 
boundaries between solid grains of Ni and Ag.  It is possible that 
effects could occur at such grain boundaries, so it can't hurt to 
try.  It is just hard to envision what would promote LENR by creating 
a "mechanical alloy".


On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net 
<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>> wrote:



One further detail about the possible advantage of using silver

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[Jones Beene]

Worth mentioning: "tritium" or something that looks like it - has been 
detected in Ni-H experiments going back to the early 1990s and these 
experiments were unpowered! Where is tritium coming from? Ignoring the 
small deuterium content of tanked hydrogen for argument's sake, a valid 
question arises. What particle formed from protium using only catalytic 
contact be confused with tritium? Could dense hydrogen be found to emit 
enough energy to be confused with tritium, or is there any other 
possibility?


With the help of modern cosmology it now appears, 20 year later, that 
dense hydrogen could indeed have been confused with tritium back then - 
to the extent Mills and others are right about "dark matter" and its 
true identity and emission energy.


The National Institute of Standards and Technology lists 4,500 ± 8 days 
(12.32 years) as the half life of 3H with a beta decay into helium-3 
releasing 18.6 keV of net energy in the process. But the beta electron's 
kinetic energy is much lower, with an average of 5.7 keV, while the 
remaining energy is carried off by an undetectable neutrino. Thus any 
detection is going to be difficult.


Detectors for beta or x-rays of 6 keV and below are problematic as even 
a thin window will not pass many electrons of this value. Film is the 
usual option for decay radiation which is unusually low energy and there 
are specialty films. Detection is usually by default and no one 
questions anything which is close. But that was before dark matter 
emissions were spotted.


In fact, dense hydrogen emits in this range of 3-6 keV. We have tossed 
around the idea for some time on this forum that the 3.6 keV mystery 
signal which has received so much attention as a dark matter signal in 
Cosmology could related to UDH.


Anyway, this is the crux of the problem - detection of a signal which is 
not easy to detect. But who knows, there could be something completely 
different this time around.

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[Axil Axil]

http://google.com/patents/US9023754

This material has been developed commercially and is available COTS from
the vender. The precursor powders are nano sized and are then sintered,

"By forming the bulk structure from nano-sized particles instead of
micron-sized (or larger sized) particles, the total catalytic surface area
can be significantly increased, given that a nano-particle is significantly
smaller than a micron particle thereby allowing for a greater quantity of
nano-particles than micron particles. The present invention can increase
the total catalytic surface area even more by removing a filler from each
particle, thereby creating an internal porosity within each particle,
rather than just the bulk porosity between the collection of particles.
This internal porosity results in an internal surface area, and therefore,
an increase in total surface area. The nano-skeletal structure produced via
the present invention preferably has a surface area of at least 10,000
times the surface area of a micron scale structure of the same volume. The
increase in surface area results in massive cost savings."

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 7:22 PM, AlanG  wrote:

> Nickel and Silver are mutually insoluble (or only with great difficulty)
> as has been pointed out. Following Jones' original post, I'm preparing a
> simple experiment to test "mechanical alloying". I will ball-mill ~2 um
> powders of the two metals for several hundred hours, using 3/8" tungsten
> carbide balls for media. SEM/EDS will be used to examine the resulting
> mixture.
>
> If the results appear to be successful, a further test will be done by
> exposing the amalgam to flowing hydrogen at various temperatures, looking
> for radiation as a signature of nuclear activity. Advice and suggestions
> for this test are welcome.
>
> AlanG
>
>
> On 6/19/2017 7:46 PM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Jones and Bob—
>
>
>
> Bob is correct rfegarding terminology for alloys.  An alloy has an ionic
> bond between metallic nuclei as I understand.   But those bonds may only
> occur at grain boundaries with individual grains of the “quasi-alloy” being
> in bulk one or the other metallic element.
>
>
>
> However the smaller the grains, the more ionic bi-metallic alloy you get.
>
>
>
> With this concept in mind starting a manufacturing process for Ni-Ag
> “alloy” would use nano sized metallic particles and proiceed to obtain a
> homogeneous mixture of the two metals, evacuate the mixture and hot press
> the mixture with various sintering times to allow a variety of heats and
>  LENR properties.
>
>
>
> Homogeneous mixing is the key.  Cryogenic conditions using a liquid gas
> such as nitrogen or helium may help avoid clumping of like metal particles
> during mixing.  Jones suggestion of a rapid ball milling procedure (with an
> inert cryogenic fluid) may work well.  Maybe merely a tumbling mixing would
> work.  However, I would guess that ball milling would further attrite the
> Ni  and or Ag nano-particles and assure good mixing.
>
>
>
> The N or helium should coat each particle with  atoms to avoid clumping.
> When the fluid mixture is poured in to a hot press mold evacuated and hot
> pressed, the individual Ni and Ag particles should remain well mixed as the
> N gas (or other gas) evaporates from its position around reach individual
> particle.   Boundary exchange of particle nuclei may then occur at
> temperature.
>
>
>
> An interesting alternative would be to use liquid H with precautions to
> handle a reaction should LENR conditions be right.  This may result in a
> bi-metallic hydride ripe for LENR with correct resonant stimulation and
> ambient magnetic conditions.
>
>
>
> SAFETY IS A CRITICAL CONSIDERATION IMHO.
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Bob Higgins 
> *Sent: *Monday, June 19, 2017 7:41 AM
> *To: *vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject: *[Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?
>
>
>
> Jones,  As you have discussed, the Type A Pd that appears to be LENR
> active is an actual alloy.  In an alloy you expect an atomic level crystal
> lattice alteration - the lattice constants of the alloy are uniform and
> different than with Pd alone.  However, what you describe as a "mechanical
> alloy" is unlikely to be anything other than an admixture of grains of Ag
> with grains of Ni.  An "alloy" and a "mechanical alloy" are two vastly
> different things.  It is sort of like the nickel silver not having any
> silver - the mechanical alloy has no alloy.
>
> True alloying would alter the lattice constants by creating a new crystal
> structure incorporating the alloy metal at the basic atomic
> crystallographic level; hopefully in a way that allows more H to enter the
> lattice.  Also, forming a true alloy would potentially lower the vacancy
> formation energy of the Ni; which, in some theories would raise the LENR
> rate.  OTOH, if a "mechanical alloy" 

RE: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Alan—

One other fact to consider during milling:  The colder the better.  A 
temperature below a ductile—brittle transition for both Ag and Ni is warranted 
to  get attrition.

Bob Cook

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: AlanG<mailto:a...@magicsound.us>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 5:19 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

Nickel and Silver are mutually insoluble (or only with great difficulty) as has 
been pointed out. Following Jones' original post, I'm preparing a simple 
experiment to test "mechanical alloying". I will ball-mill ~2 um powders of the 
two metals for several hundred hours, using 3/8" tungsten carbide balls for 
media. SEM/EDS will be used to examine the resulting mixture.

If the results appear to be successful, a further test will be done by exposing 
the amalgam to flowing hydrogen at various temperatures, looking for radiation 
as a signature of nuclear activity. Advice and suggestions for this test are 
welcome.

AlanG
On 6/19/2017 7:46 PM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com<mailto:bobcook39...@hotmail.com> 
wrote:
Jones and Bob—

Bob is correct rfegarding terminology for alloys.  An alloy has an ionic bond 
between metallic nuclei as I understand.   But those bonds may only occur at 
grain boundaries with individual grains of the “quasi-alloy” being in bulk one 
or the other metallic element.

However the smaller the grains, the more ionic bi-metallic alloy you get.

With this concept in mind starting a manufacturing process for Ni-Ag “alloy” 
would use nano sized metallic particles and proiceed to obtain a homogeneous 
mixture of the two metals, evacuate the mixture and hot press the mixture with 
various sintering times to allow a variety of heats and  LENR properties.

Homogeneous mixing is the key.  Cryogenic conditions using a liquid gas such as 
nitrogen or helium may help avoid clumping of like metal particles during 
mixing.  Jones suggestion of a rapid ball milling procedure (with an inert 
cryogenic fluid) may work well.  Maybe merely a tumbling mixing would work.  
However, I would guess that ball milling would further attrite the Ni  and or 
Ag nano-particles and assure good mixing.

The N or helium should coat each particle with  atoms to avoid clumping.  When 
the fluid mixture is poured in to a hot press mold evacuated and hot pressed, 
the individual Ni and Ag particles should remain well mixed as the N gas (or 
other gas) evaporates from its position around reach individual particle.   
Boundary exchange of particle nuclei may then occur at temperature.

An interesting alternative would be to use liquid H with precautions to handle 
a reaction should LENR conditions be right.  This may result in a bi-metallic 
hydride ripe for LENR with correct resonant stimulation and ambient magnetic 
conditions.

SAFETY IS A CRITICAL CONSIDERATION IMHO.

Bob Cook


Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Bob Higgins<mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 7:41 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

Jones,  As you have discussed, the Type A Pd that appears to be LENR active is 
an actual alloy.  In an alloy you expect an atomic level crystal lattice 
alteration - the lattice constants of the alloy are uniform and different than 
with Pd alone.  However, what you describe as a "mechanical alloy" is unlikely 
to be anything other than an admixture of grains of Ag with grains of Ni.  An 
"alloy" and a "mechanical alloy" are two vastly different things.  It is sort 
of like the nickel silver not having any silver - the mechanical alloy has no 
alloy.
True alloying would alter the lattice constants by creating a new crystal 
structure incorporating the alloy metal at the basic atomic crystallographic 
level; hopefully in a way that allows more H to enter the lattice.  Also, 
forming a true alloy would potentially lower the vacancy formation energy of 
the Ni; which, in some theories would raise the LENR rate.  OTOH, if a 
"mechanical alloy" is formed, the only difference achieved will be creation of 
dirty grain boundaries between solid grains of Ni and Ag.  It is possible that 
effects could occur at such grain boundaries, so it can't hurt to try.  It is 
just hard to envision what would promote LENR by creating a "mechanical alloy".

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Jones Beene 
<jone...@pacbell.net<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>> wrote:

One further detail about the possible advantage of using silver alloyed with 
nickel in LENR, instead of pure nickel - with hydrogen as the gaseous reactant, 
instead of deuterium.

If this were to work for LENR gain, the identity of the nuclear reaction is not 
the same. Obviously, such an all

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[Jones Beene]

Bob - What you say is true and I am using both Mills, Holmlid, 
Paillet-Muelenberg and many others like Arata (pychno) in the more 
general sense of having found a version of "dense hydrogen" even though 
the details of each are different and in some cases, vastly different.


There could be several different varieties of dense hydrogen - and they 
could all be right when describing the one they find -- or there could 
be only one variety and they are all only half-right. Far too little 
resources have been applied to find out the truth, and experiments like 
Alan's could revive that effort.




Bob Higgins wrote:
Well, Jones, I hate to keep bringing up that Holmlid and Mills are 
nearly opposite apples and oranges. Holmlid's technology involves 
creation of high potential energy _multi-atom clusters_ in the Rydberg 
state (electron in a high energy state that is nearly ionized), and 
somehow (thermodynamic improbability) catalyzing these large high 
energy clusters into a higher energy compact form (UDD/UDH).  As you 
well know, Vavra/Mills/Paillet-Muelenberg are proposing that _single 
atoms_ are shrunken to a state below the classic ground level by 
_removing_ energy from the electron via evanescent means (non-photon 
exchange), resulting in a very _low energy_ compacted _single atom_ of 
small physical size.  What a magic material it would be to enhance the 
formation of both types of exotic matter.


Hi Bob,

Yes - good observation and I should have brought this up earlier
(but the posting was too long to begin with). A mechano-alloy
would never be uniform and would be an admixture of grains.

The fact that nickel and silver are mutually insoluble means that
one would have to abandon any hope of D+D fusion in a matrix as
the main operative mechanism for gain. But of course, that is a
given when you do not use deuterium - and thus, anything related
to Ni-H has already abandoned the possibility of fusion resulting
in helium.

It would be an insurmountable problem if the criterion for success
of a metal matrix were to be only the inter-atomic spacing of the
alloy and the strengthening against cracks. Thus the analogy to
Type A Pd (when compared to Ni-Ag) is not strong unless there is
more going-on than fusion. In fact it is a weak analogy if we do
not accept a compound process which involves "densification".

In the end, what I am proposing is that silver is special for its
nuclear properties - and anything else is simply a bonus. That
would imply that the fact that it works well with palladium could
be twofold, and involves not only fusion but more. I hate to keep
bringing up Holmlid, but his findings are the key to both Ni-H and
Pd-D, from my perspective.

In both cases (Pd-D or Ni-H) - anomalous thermal gain is explained
as a two-step process, which must first involve the conversion of
the normal hydrogen molecule into the dense atomic form. With
Pd-D, this would mean that UDD (aka "pychno") is a necessary first
step -- following which which UDD can fuse or it can react in
other ways. But with Ni-H... where the nickel is a mechano-alloy
with silver, with crude spacing and dirty grains, the operative
reaction would be very different and probably involves the
"quasi-neutron."

Importantly, silver could promote densification. We see this
possibility most clearly in the Mills SunCell. Mills goes to great
lengths in his most recent patent application to explain how
silver does this, since the element was not one of his original
catalysts and was avoided for many years.

This probably means that the delay which Mills BLP seems to be
currently experiencing (in a meaningful public demo, and in the
rumor mill) relates to gamma radiation following silver
activation. The activation in not due to a real neutron, but to
UDH (hydrino) as a surrogate neutron.


On 6/19/2017 8:23 AM, Bob Higgins wrote:

Jones,  As you have discussed, the Type A Pd that appears to be
LENR active is an actual alloy.  In an alloy you expect an atomic
level crystal lattice alteration - the lattice constants of the
alloy are uniform and different than with Pd alone.  However,
what you describe as a "mechanical alloy" is unlikely to be
anything other than an admixture of grains of Ag with grains of
Ni.  An "alloy" and a "mechanical alloy" are two vastly different
things.  It is sort of like the nickel silver not having any
silver - the mechanical alloy has no alloy.

True alloying would alter the lattice constants by creating a new
crystal structure incorporating the alloy metal at the basic
atomic crystallographic level; hopefully in a way that allows
more H to enter the lattice.  Also, forming a true alloy would
potentially lower the vacancy formation energy of the Ni; which,
in some theories would raise the LENR 

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[Jones Beene]

Over twenty years ago (in the previous century) there was a flurry of 
nickel experiments and papers from India, Italy and Japan which were 
often simply called the "Piantelli experiments." Piantelli then moved on 
to other things and their importance has been forgotten.


Most of the papers are on the LENR-CANR site. The gist of them is that 
evidence for tritium generation or the soft x-rays associated with 
tritium beta decay can be detected on an UNPOWERED catalyst, simply 
exposed to hydrogen flow. Basically, "Self-heated Nickel Wires" are 
subjected To Hydrogen Gas Absroption/Desorption Cycles, and "impossible" 
radiation is seen. The radiation is typical of the low end of beta 
decay. Since a detector can be moved in very close when no heavy reactor 
is needed, it is possible to see radiation in the range of 10 keV and 
less. The sample can be presented in a thin plastic tube or straw since 
even glass can shield this level of radiation. Yet, make no mistake - it 
is impossible radiation and should never be there.


This radiation finding, in retrospect is hugely overlooked, and 
especially being the result of an unpowered experiment - it should have 
been proof-positive to the Establishment for LENR along with Claytor's 
detection of tritium, but alas - there were a few null US replication 
attempts and the focus was not taken to the next logical level. That 
would have been to test alloys of nickel and look for improvement. 
Everyone wanted to see excess heat back then and radiation was ignored.


The revival of this type of basic experiment is long overdue. Hats-off 
to Alan for taking the initiative on this, especially after the 
disappointment of a trip to Europe where Me356 failed to verify his claims.


Alan has a good setup for radiation detection and could see success in 
several different ways without looking for thermal gain.



AlanG wrote:
Nickel and Silver are mutually insoluble (or only with great 
difficulty) as has been pointed out. Following Jones' original post, 
I'm preparing a simple experiment to test "mechanical alloying". I 
will ball-mill ~2 um powders of the two metals for several hundred 
hours, using 3/8" tungsten carbide balls for media. SEM/EDS will be 
used to examine the resulting mixture.


If the results appear to be successful, a further test will be done by 
exposing the amalgam to flowing hydrogen at various temperatures, 
looking for radiation as a signature of nuclear activity. Advice and 
suggestions for this test are welcome.


AlanG

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[Brian Ahern]

Alan, where is your report on Me356/?


From: AlanG <a...@magicsound.us>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 7:22 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

Nickel and Silver are mutually insoluble (or only with great difficulty) as has 
been pointed out. Following Jones' original post, I'm preparing a simple 
experiment to test "mechanical alloying". I will ball-mill ~2 um powders of the 
two metals for several hundred hours, using 3/8" tungsten carbide balls for 
media. SEM/EDS will be used to examine the resulting mixture.

If the results appear to be successful, a further test will be done by exposing 
the amalgam to flowing hydrogen at various temperatures, looking for radiation 
as a signature of nuclear activity. Advice and suggestions for this test are 
welcome.

AlanG

On 6/19/2017 7:46 PM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com<mailto:bobcook39...@hotmail.com> 
wrote:
Jones and Bob—

Bob is correct rfegarding terminology for alloys.  An alloy has an ionic bond 
between metallic nuclei as I understand.   But those bonds may only occur at 
grain boundaries with individual grains of the “quasi-alloy” being in bulk one 
or the other metallic element.

However the smaller the grains, the more ionic bi-metallic alloy you get.

With this concept in mind starting a manufacturing process for Ni-Ag “alloy” 
would use nano sized metallic particles and proiceed to obtain a homogeneous 
mixture of the two metals, evacuate the mixture and hot press the mixture with 
various sintering times to allow a variety of heats and  LENR properties.

Homogeneous mixing is the key.  Cryogenic conditions using a liquid gas such as 
nitrogen or helium may help avoid clumping of like metal particles during 
mixing.  Jones suggestion of a rapid ball milling procedure (with an inert 
cryogenic fluid) may work well.  Maybe merely a tumbling mixing would work.  
However, I would guess that ball milling would further attrite the Ni  and or 
Ag nano-particles and assure good mixing.

The N or helium should coat each particle with  atoms to avoid clumping.  When 
the fluid mixture is poured in to a hot press mold evacuated and hot pressed, 
the individual Ni and Ag particles should remain well mixed as the N gas (or 
other gas) evaporates from its position around reach individual particle.   
Boundary exchange of particle nuclei may then occur at temperature.

An interesting alternative would be to use liquid H with precautions to handle 
a reaction should LENR conditions be right.  This may result in a bi-metallic 
hydride ripe for LENR with correct resonant stimulation and ambient magnetic 
conditions.

SAFETY IS A CRITICAL CONSIDERATION IMHO.

Bob Cook


Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Bob Higgins<mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 7:41 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

Jones,  As you have discussed, the Type A Pd that appears to be LENR active is 
an actual alloy.  In an alloy you expect an atomic level crystal lattice 
alteration - the lattice constants of the alloy are uniform and different than 
with Pd alone.  However, what you describe as a "mechanical alloy" is unlikely 
to be anything other than an admixture of grains of Ag with grains of Ni.  An 
"alloy" and a "mechanical alloy" are two vastly different things.  It is sort 
of like the nickel silver not having any silver - the mechanical alloy has no 
alloy.
True alloying would alter the lattice constants by creating a new crystal 
structure incorporating the alloy metal at the basic atomic crystallographic 
level; hopefully in a way that allows more H to enter the lattice.  Also, 
forming a true alloy would potentially lower the vacancy formation energy of 
the Ni; which, in some theories would raise the LENR rate.  OTOH, if a 
"mechanical alloy" is formed, the only difference achieved will be creation of 
dirty grain boundaries between solid grains of Ni and Ag.  It is possible that 
effects could occur at such grain boundaries, so it can't hurt to try.  It is 
just hard to envision what would promote LENR by creating a "mechanical alloy".

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Jones Beene 
<jone...@pacbell.net<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>> wrote:

One further detail about the possible advantage of using silver alloyed with 
nickel in LENR, instead of pure nickel - with hydrogen as the gaseous reactant, 
instead of deuterium.

If this were to work for LENR gain, the identity of the nuclear reaction is not 
the same. Obviously, such an alloy as Ni-Ag (assuming it is made via mechanical 
alloying)... would be unlikely to produce helium from fusion, as happens in 
Pd-D... since there is no deuterium (although a alpha emission following proton 
nuclear tunneling is not ruled out.) 

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[Jones Beene]

Hi Bob,

Yes - good observation and I should have brought this up earlier (but 
the posting was too long to begin with). A mechano-alloy would never be 
uniform and would be an admixture of grains.


The fact that nickel and silver are mutually insoluble means that one 
would have to abandon any hope of D+D fusion in a matrix as the main 
operative mechanism for gain. But of course, that is a given when you do 
not use deuterium - and thus, anything related to Ni-H has already 
abandoned the possibility of fusion resulting in helium.


It would be an insurmountable problem if the criterion for success of a 
metal matrix were to be only the inter-atomic spacing of the alloy and 
the strengthening against cracks. Thus the analogy to Type A Pd (when 
compared to Ni-Ag) is not strong unless there is more going-on than 
fusion. In fact it is a weak analogy if we do not accept a compound 
process which involves "densification".


In the end, what I am proposing is that silver is special for its 
nuclear properties - and anything else is simply a bonus. That would 
imply that the fact that it works well with palladium could be twofold, 
and involves not only fusion but more. I hate to keep bringing up 
Holmlid, but his findings are the key to both Ni-H and Pd-D, from my 
perspective.


In both cases (Pd-D or Ni-H) - anomalous thermal gain is explained as a 
two-step process, which must first involve the conversion of the normal 
hydrogen molecule into the dense atomic form. With Pd-D, this would mean 
that UDD (aka "pychno") is a necessary first step -- following which 
which UDD can fuse or it can react in other ways. But with Ni-H... where 
the nickel is a mechano-alloy with silver, with crude spacing and dirty 
grains, the operative reaction would be very different and probably 
involves the "quasi-neutron."


Importantly, silver could promote densification. We see this possibility 
most clearly in the Mills SunCell. Mills goes to great lengths in his 
most recent patent application to explain how silver does this, since 
the element was not one of his original catalysts and was avoided for 
many years.


This probably means that the delay which Mills BLP seems to be currently 
experiencing (in a meaningful public demo, and in the rumor mill) 
relates to gamma radiation following silver activation. The activation 
in not due to a real neutron, but to UDH (hydrino) as a surrogate neutron.



On 6/19/2017 8:23 AM, Bob Higgins wrote:
Jones,  As you have discussed, the Type A Pd that appears to be LENR 
active is an actual alloy.  In an alloy you expect an atomic level 
crystal lattice alteration - the lattice constants of the alloy are 
uniform and different than with Pd alone.  However, what you describe 
as a "mechanical alloy" is unlikely to be anything other than an 
admixture of grains of Ag with grains of Ni.  An "alloy" and a 
"mechanical alloy" are two vastly different things.  It is sort of 
like the nickel silver not having any silver - the mechanical alloy 
has no alloy.


True alloying would alter the lattice constants by creating a new 
crystal structure incorporating the alloy metal at the basic atomic 
crystallographic level; hopefully in a way that allows more H to enter 
the lattice.  Also, forming a true alloy would potentially lower the 
vacancy formation energy of the Ni; which, in some theories would 
raise the LENR rate.  OTOH, if a "mechanical alloy" is formed, the 
only difference achieved will be creation of dirty grain boundaries 
between solid grains of Ni and Ag.  It is possible that effects could 
occur at such grain boundaries, so it can't hurt to try.  It is just 
hard to envision what would promote LENR by creating a "mechanical alloy".


On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Jones Beene > wrote:



One further detail about the possible advantage of using silver
alloyed with nickel in LENR, instead of pure nickel - with
hydrogen as the gaseous reactant, instead of deuterium.

If this were to work for LENR gain, the identity of the nuclear
reaction is not the same. Obviously, such an alloy as Ni-Ag
(assuming it is made via mechanical alloying)... would be unlikely
to produce helium from fusion, as happens in Pd-D... since there
is no deuterium (although a alpha emission following proton
nuclear tunneling is not ruled out.) But there is an ideal
alternative reaction.

First - a detail which you may not be aware of is the composition
of control rods in nuclear fission reactors going back 50 years.
As it turns out - silver has been commonly used as an alloy in
control rods, along with boron. Part of the explanation is here
but there is more to it than meets the eye. Silver is like a
magnet for neutrons more so than any other element across the
entire spectrum.

http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2011/ph241/grayson1/

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[AlanG]

Nickel and Silver are mutually insoluble (or only with great difficulty) 
as has been pointed out. Following Jones' original post, I'm preparing a 
simple experiment to test "mechanical alloying". I will ball-mill ~2 um 
powders of the two metals for several hundred hours, using 3/8" tungsten 
carbide balls for media. SEM/EDS will be used to examine the resulting 
mixture.


If the results appear to be successful, a further test will be done by 
exposing the amalgam to flowing hydrogen at various temperatures, 
looking for radiation as a signature of nuclear activity. Advice and 
suggestions for this test are welcome.


AlanG

On 6/19/2017 7:46 PM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com wrote:


Jones and Bob—

Bob is correct rfegarding terminology for alloys.  An alloy has an 
ionic bond between metallic nuclei as I understand.   But those bonds 
may only occur at grain boundaries with individual grains of the 
“quasi-alloy” being in bulk one or the other metallic element.


However the smaller the grains, the more ionic bi-metallic alloy you get.

With this concept in mind starting a manufacturing process for Ni-Ag 
“alloy” would use nano sized metallic particles and proiceed to obtain 
a homogeneous mixture of the two metals, evacuate the mixture and hot 
press the mixture with various sintering times to allow a variety of 
heats and  LENR properties.


Homogeneous mixing is the key.  Cryogenic conditions using a liquid 
gas such as nitrogen or helium may help avoid clumping of like metal 
particles during mixing. Jones suggestion of a rapid ball milling 
procedure (with an inert cryogenic fluid) may work well.  Maybe merely 
a tumbling mixing would work.  However, I would guess that ball 
milling would further attrite the Ni  and or Ag nano-particles and 
assure good mixing.


The N or helium should coat each particle with  atoms to avoid 
clumping.  When the fluid mixture is poured in to a hot press mold 
evacuated and hot pressed, the individual Ni and Ag particles should 
remain well mixed as the N gas (or other gas) evaporates from its 
position around reach individual particle.   Boundary exchange of 
particle nuclei may then occur at temperature.


An interesting alternative would be to use liquid H with precautions 
to handle a reaction should LENR conditions be right.  This may result 
in a bi-metallic hydride ripe for LENR with correct resonant 
stimulation and ambient magnetic conditions.


SAFETY IS A CRITICAL CONSIDERATION IMHO.

Bob Cook

Sent from Mail  for 
Windows 10


*From: *Bob Higgins 
*Sent: *Monday, June 19, 2017 7:41 AM
*To: *vortex-l@eskimo.com 
*Subject: *[Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

Jones,  As you have discussed, the Type A Pd that appears to be LENR 
active is an actual alloy.  In an alloy you expect an atomic level 
crystal lattice alteration - the lattice constants of the alloy are 
uniform and different than with Pd alone.  However, what you describe 
as a "mechanical alloy" is unlikely to be anything other than an 
admixture of grains of Ag with grains of Ni.  An "alloy" and a 
"mechanical alloy" are two vastly different things.  It is sort of 
like the nickel silver not having any silver - the mechanical alloy 
has no alloy.


True alloying would alter the lattice constants by creating a new 
crystal structure incorporating the alloy metal at the basic atomic 
crystallographic level; hopefully in a way that allows more H to enter 
the lattice. Also, forming a true alloy would potentially lower the 
vacancy formation energy of the Ni; which, in some theories would 
raise the LENR rate.  OTOH, if a "mechanical alloy" is formed, the 
only difference achieved will be creation of dirty grain boundaries 
between solid grains of Ni and Ag.  It is possible that effects could 
occur at such grain boundaries, so it can't hurt to try.  It is just 
hard to envision what would promote LENR by creating a "mechanical alloy".


On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Jones Beene > wrote:



One further detail about the possible advantage of using silver
alloyed with nickel in LENR, instead of pure nickel - with
hydrogen as the gaseous reactant, instead of deuterium.

If this were to work for LENR gain, the identity of the nuclear
reaction is not the same. Obviously, such an alloy as Ni-Ag
(assuming it is made via mechanical alloying)... would be unlikely
to produce helium from fusion, as happens in Pd-D... since there
is no deuterium (although a alpha emission following proton
nuclear tunneling is not ruled out.) But there is an ideal
alternative reaction.

First - a detail which you may not be aware of is the composition
of control rods in nuclear fission reactors going back 50 years.
As it turns out - silver has been commonly used as an alloy in
control rods, along with boron. Part of the 

RE: [Vo]:"Type A nickel"

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Jones-

Cryogenic processing of solid rocket propellants—oxidizer, fuel and rubber glue 
or matrix does make a lot of  sense.

Being cryogenic, its SAFE.  It  affords an efficient chemical reaction and 
release of maximum energy, being very well mixed in a stoichiometric  
proportion.  And it does not entail a batch production of solid fuel in  
limited volumes.

Bob Cook

From: Jones Beene<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 1:48 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

bobcook39...@hotmail.com wrote:
 >
 > An interesting alternative would be to use liquid H...

This type of experiment should have been attempted ... but surprisingly
- nothing relevant turns up in a quick search.

Can a cryogenic cold catalyst like Pd-Ag or Ni-Ag pass protons as ions
if they were in an intense magnetic field ? There could be an overlooked
commercial market. For instance, rocket propellant.

Think about this. Imagine a spacecraft where only LH is carried as fuel,
no LOX or other oxidizer. The thrust may be cold, but who cares?

You have saved lots of fuel weight by ditching the oxidizer - but how
much thrust do you get by pumping LH through a proton conducting
catalyst membrane like palladium or equivalent?

First off, everything can be superconducting - since you have "free
cryogenics" by virtue of using the LH as the fuel. Palladium hydride is
superconducting. (I do not know about Pd-Ag or Ni-Ag hydrides, as far as
being superconductive. If protons could be released on the "other side
of a membrane" [doubtful] and that other side represents the exhaust of
a rocket motor - then, voila...

We have a case for very cold ion acceleration in an intense but "free"
magnetic field using no oxidizer. Alternatively, if deuterium was used
and a few PPM were fused as it is passing through, then you have warm or
hot thrust.

Here are some interesting facts on LH with the associated gaps of knowledge.

1. Molecular hydrogen, despite its extraordinarily large bond
dissociation energy of 436
kJ/mol, readily dissociates in the presence of palladium at temperatures
as low as 37 K. Not sure what happens closer to 0 K.
2. Hydrogen atoms migrate from hole-to-hole through the matrix of
palladium very rapidly with minimal applied pressure. The speed of this
migration is incredible due to the mobility of protons.
3. The hydrogen density is greater in Pd than than in liquid hydrogen
and the palladium membrane would appear to be a "diode" in this case.
4. Palladium hydride is superconducting. Although molecular hydrogen is
diamagnetic, atomic hydrogen has a self-field of 12.5 Tesla due to the
electron. This should create a huge acceleration gradient since the
hydride is atomic in transit.
5. Normally, H2 is released after passing through a membrane by the
reverse process of hydrogen absorption and there is no net gain or loss
even though the matrix would normally heat up from additional pressure.
6. However, in a very large applied magnetic field, say 10 Tesla what
happens ? ... will protons be accelerated away from the membrane as
ions... as they emerge on the other side, or as molecular ions or as
molecules? Can a charged grid be used to boost acceleration?
7. If the LH enters on one side of a membrane and emerges as very cold
protons along magnetic field lines - the thrust could be very large -
much larger than combustion. Plus the lower weight.

Sure, we can agree that this scenario is most unlikely since it violates
the Laws of Thermodynamics (unless ultra-cold fusion occurs) but the
actual testing of the concept seems never to have been done...

hmmm... it is a safe bet that the large vapor trail in Oz is hydrogen
rich

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[Jones Beene]

bobcook39...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> An interesting alternative would be to use liquid H...

This type of experiment should have been attempted ... but surprisingly 
- nothing relevant turns up in a quick search.


Can a cryogenic cold catalyst like Pd-Ag or Ni-Ag pass protons as ions 
if they were in an intense magnetic field ? There could be an overlooked 
commercial market. For instance, rocket propellant.


Think about this. Imagine a spacecraft where only LH is carried as fuel, 
no LOX or other oxidizer. The thrust may be cold, but who cares?


You have saved lots of fuel weight by ditching the oxidizer - but how 
much thrust do you get by pumping LH through a proton conducting 
catalyst membrane like palladium or equivalent?


First off, everything can be superconducting - since you have "free 
cryogenics" by virtue of using the LH as the fuel. Palladium hydride is 
superconducting. (I do not know about Pd-Ag or Ni-Ag hydrides, as far as 
being superconductive. If protons could be released on the "other side 
of a membrane" [doubtful] and that other side represents the exhaust of 
a rocket motor - then, voila...


We have a case for very cold ion acceleration in an intense but "free" 
magnetic field using no oxidizer. Alternatively, if deuterium was used 
and a few PPM were fused as it is passing through, then you have warm or 
hot thrust.


Here are some interesting facts on LH with the associated gaps of knowledge.

1. Molecular hydrogen, despite its extraordinarily large bond 
dissociation energy of 436
kJ/mol, readily dissociates in the presence of palladium at temperatures 
as low as 37 K. Not sure what happens closer to 0 K.
2. Hydrogen atoms migrate from hole-to-hole through the matrix of 
palladium very rapidly with minimal applied pressure. The speed of this 
migration is incredible due to the mobility of protons.
3. The hydrogen density is greater in Pd than than in liquid hydrogen 
and the palladium membrane would appear to be a "diode" in this case.
4. Palladium hydride is superconducting. Although molecular hydrogen is 
diamagnetic, atomic hydrogen has a self-field of 12.5 Tesla due to the 
electron. This should create a huge acceleration gradient since the 
hydride is atomic in transit.
5. Normally, H2 is released after passing through a membrane by the 
reverse process of hydrogen absorption and there is no net gain or loss 
even though the matrix would normally heat up from additional pressure.
6. However, in a very large applied magnetic field, say 10 Tesla what 
happens ? ... will protons be accelerated away from the membrane as 
ions... as they emerge on the other side, or as molecular ions or as 
molecules? Can a charged grid be used to boost acceleration?
7. If the LH enters on one side of a membrane and emerges as very cold 
protons along magnetic field lines - the thrust could be very large - 
much larger than combustion. Plus the lower weight.


Sure, we can agree that this scenario is most unlikely since it violates 
the Laws of Thermodynamics (unless ultra-cold fusion occurs) but the 
actual testing of the concept seems never to have been done...


hmmm... it is a safe bet that the large vapor trail in Oz is hydrogen 
rich

RE: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Jones and Bob—

Bob is correct rfegarding terminology for alloys.  An alloy has an ionic bond 
between metallic nuclei as I understand.   But those bonds may only occur at 
grain boundaries with individual grains of the “quasi-alloy” being in bulk one 
or the other metallic element.

However the smaller the grains, the more ionic bi-metallic alloy you get.

With this concept in mind starting a manufacturing process for Ni-Ag “alloy” 
would use nano sized metallic particles and proiceed to obtain a homogeneous 
mixture of the two metals, evacuate the mixture and hot press the mixture with 
various sintering times to allow a variety of heats and  LENR properties.

Homogeneous mixing is the key.  Cryogenic conditions using a liquid gas such as 
nitrogen or helium may help avoid clumping of like metal particles during 
mixing.  Jones suggestion of a rapid ball milling procedure (with an inert 
cryogenic fluid) may work well.  Maybe merely a tumbling mixing would work.  
However, I would guess that ball milling would further attrite the Ni  and or 
Ag nano-particles and assure good mixing.

The N or helium should coat each particle with  atoms to avoid clumping.  When 
the fluid mixture is poured in to a hot press mold evacuated and hot pressed, 
the individual Ni and Ag particles should remain well mixed as the N gas (or 
other gas) evaporates from its position around reach individual particle.   
Boundary exchange of particle nuclei may then occur at temperature.

An interesting alternative would be to use liquid H with precautions to handle 
a reaction should LENR conditions be right.  This may result in a bi-metallic 
hydride ripe for LENR with correct resonant stimulation and ambient magnetic 
conditions.

SAFETY IS A CRITICAL CONSIDERATION IMHO.

Bob Cook


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bob Higgins
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 7:41 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

Jones,  As you have discussed, the Type A Pd that appears to be LENR active is 
an actual alloy.  In an alloy you expect an atomic level crystal lattice 
alteration - the lattice constants of the alloy are uniform and different than 
with Pd alone.  However, what you describe as a "mechanical alloy" is unlikely 
to be anything other than an admixture of grains of Ag with grains of Ni.  An 
"alloy" and a "mechanical alloy" are two vastly different things.  It is sort 
of like the nickel silver not having any silver - the mechanical alloy has no 
alloy.
True alloying would alter the lattice constants by creating a new crystal 
structure incorporating the alloy metal at the basic atomic crystallographic 
level; hopefully in a way that allows more H to enter the lattice.  Also, 
forming a true alloy would potentially lower the vacancy formation energy of 
the Ni; which, in some theories would raise the LENR rate.  OTOH, if a 
"mechanical alloy" is formed, the only difference achieved will be creation of 
dirty grain boundaries between solid grains of Ni and Ag.  It is possible that 
effects could occur at such grain boundaries, so it can't hurt to try.  It is 
just hard to envision what would promote LENR by creating a "mechanical alloy".

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Jones Beene 
> wrote:

One further detail about the possible advantage of using silver alloyed with 
nickel in LENR, instead of pure nickel - with hydrogen as the gaseous reactant, 
instead of deuterium.

If this were to work for LENR gain, the identity of the nuclear reaction is not 
the same. Obviously, such an alloy as Ni-Ag (assuming it is made via mechanical 
alloying)... would be unlikely to produce helium from fusion, as happens in 
Pd-D... since there is no deuterium (although a alpha emission following proton 
nuclear tunneling is not ruled out.) But there is an ideal alternative reaction.

First - a detail which you may not be aware of is the composition of control 
rods in nuclear fission reactors going back 50 years. As it turns out - silver 
has been commonly used as an alloy in control rods, along with boron. Part of 
the explanation is here but there is more to it than meets the eye. Silver is 
like a magnet for neutrons more so than any other element across the entire 
spectrum.

http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2011/ph241/grayson1/

In short, silver has a high cross section for neutrons of all energies whereas 
boron and cadmium and other absorbents generally work with neutrons of a narrow 
energy range. Silver wants them all and this could imply more, if Ag works with 
nickel.

But where are the neutrons to being with? - oops - there are none, or so it 
seems.

But lets broaden this suggestion to include Holmlid's results. Holmlid shows 
that UDH can be made simply by flowing hydrogen over a catalyst. If so then we 
could end up with a neutron substitute, which is the 

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[Axil Axil]

The issue of loading hydrogen into palladium has been addressed in the
codeposition process, No need for any alloying.

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Bob Higgins 
wrote:

> Jones,  As you have discussed, the Type A Pd that appears to be LENR
> active is an actual alloy.  In an alloy you expect an atomic level crystal
> lattice alteration - the lattice constants of the alloy are uniform and
> different than with Pd alone.  However, what you describe as a "mechanical
> alloy" is unlikely to be anything other than an admixture of grains of Ag
> with grains of Ni.  An "alloy" and a "mechanical alloy" are two vastly
> different things.  It is sort of like the nickel silver not having any
> silver - the mechanical alloy has no alloy.
>
> True alloying would alter the lattice constants by creating a new crystal
> structure incorporating the alloy metal at the basic atomic
> crystallographic level; hopefully in a way that allows more H to enter the
> lattice.  Also, forming a true alloy would potentially lower the vacancy
> formation energy of the Ni; which, in some theories would raise the LENR
> rate.  OTOH, if a "mechanical alloy" is formed, the only difference
> achieved will be creation of dirty grain boundaries between solid grains of
> Ni and Ag.  It is possible that effects could occur at such grain
> boundaries, so it can't hurt to try.  It is just hard to envision what
> would promote LENR by creating a "mechanical alloy".
>
> On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>>
>> One further detail about the possible advantage of using silver alloyed
>> with nickel in LENR, instead of pure nickel - with hydrogen as the gaseous
>> reactant, instead of deuterium.
>>
>> If this were to work for LENR gain, the identity of the nuclear reaction
>> is not the same. Obviously, such an alloy as Ni-Ag (assuming it is made via
>> mechanical alloying)... would be unlikely to produce helium from fusion, as
>> happens in Pd-D... since there is no deuterium (although a alpha emission
>> following proton nuclear tunneling is not ruled out.) But there is an ideal
>> alternative reaction.
>>
>> First - a detail which you may not be aware of is the composition of
>> control rods in nuclear fission reactors going back 50 years. As it turns
>> out - silver has been commonly used as an alloy in control rods, along with
>> boron. Part of the explanation is here but there is more to it than meets
>> the eye. Silver is like a magnet for neutrons more so than any other
>> element across the entire spectrum.
>>
>> http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2011/ph241/grayson1/
>>
>> In short, silver has a high cross section for neutrons of all energies
>> whereas boron and cadmium and other absorbents generally work with neutrons
>> of a narrow energy range. Silver wants them all and this could imply more,
>> if Ag works with nickel.
>>
>> But where are the neutrons to being with? - oops - there are none, or so
>> it seems.
>>
>> But lets broaden this suggestion to include Holmlid's results. Holmlid
>> shows that UDH can be made simply by flowing hydrogen over a catalyst. If
>> so then we could end up with a neutron substitute, which is the so-called
>> "quasi-neutron".
>>
>> This presumed particle is larger than a neutron, but otherwise could be a
>> substitute. This quasi-neutron could also be what Widom and Larsen are
>> claiming as an active particle of LENR.
>>
>> The crux of the issue is this. Silver has a high cross-section for
>> neutrons of all energies and the quasi neutron could also favor silver -
>> but this is not proved. If it happens, the energy of the gamma should be
>> less, since the mass-energy of UDH is less. Also the half-life following
>> activation is very short and there is little or no residual radioactivity.
>>
>> Jones
>>
>>
>> Much has been said about Type A palladium and its special reactivity with
>>> hydrogen, some of which is due to the alloy being one fourth silver. Since
>>> pure palladium doesn't work as well, it might be said that most of the
>>> reactivity seen in cold fusion has been due to the special properties of
>>> the alloy, which is a 3:1 ratio (75% Pd 25% Ag).
>>>
>>> In many ways, nickel can be considered to be a surrogate of palladium.
>>> Nickel resides directly under Pd in the Periodic table, and has an
>>> identical valence electron structure. This leads one to wonder about an
>>> alloy of nickel and silver, based on transposing the results of cold fusion
>>> to protium, instead of deuterium.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, in the historical context - and going back 300 years in
>>> metallurgy, the term "nickel silver" refers to a well known alloy of
>>> copper, nickel and zinc which contains zero silver. Essentially, nickel
>>> silver is a brass alloy that looks like much like the more expensive silver
>>> and is much stronger and more durable - making it a great substitute for
>>> most common uses.
>>>
>>> This old alloy was created to 

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[Axil Axil]

https://phys.org/news/2016-05-scanning-skyrmions-scientists-image-skyrmion.html

Scanning for skyrmions: Scientists directly image skyrmion cluster state
transitions in iron-germanium nanodisks

The key to LENR is twisting magnetic field lines to form magnetic knots.
This magnetic field line twisting produces magnetic particles called
instantons that cause particles to decay. A material called a cubic
helimagnet can do this trick.

On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 1:34 AM, Alain Sepeda 
wrote:

> his framework to propose NiMn is absolutely not nucler, but about the
> phase transition graph.
> The idea behind is that if you use PdAg or NiMn you can load hydrogen
> (D/H) with less damage in the crystaline lattice at lower temperature.
>
> when Ag and Mn reduce a threshold temperature, above whiche phase
> transition is smoother and there is less damage in the latice.
>
> It may be coherent with Ed Storms theory, and his hypothesis that big
> cracks are bad, and compete with smaller cracks that are however required,
> and maybe produced by alpha-beta transition, but the smoother version...
>
> all is about metallurgy.
>
> 2017-06-14 15:17 GMT+02:00 Jones Beene :
>
>> Thanks. There is interesting information there.
>>
>> Armanet suggests that an equivalent of PdAg for LENR could be NiMn (as
>> opposed to NiAg). Apparently this relates to a similarity in geometric
>> spacing in the crystal.
>>
>> This equivalency may assume that the only purpose of the silver is to
>> mechanically stabilize the matrix, which may not be the ultimate benefit of
>> the alloy - if silver also is reactive for the nuclear tunneling of
>> hydrogen.
>>
>> In terms of the active mechanism for gain, the emphasis on phase change
>> by Armanet could open up an alternative mechanism. That would be coupling
>> of nuclear spin/isospin to phase change.
>>
>>
>>
>>  Alain Sepeda wrote:
>>
>>> Nicolas Armanet talking of alpha-beta transition in Pd discussed Ni
>>> during RNBE2016.
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[Alain Sepeda]

his framework to propose NiMn is absolutely not nucler, but about the phase
transition graph.
The idea behind is that if you use PdAg or NiMn you can load hydrogen (D/H)
with less damage in the crystaline lattice at lower temperature.

when Ag and Mn reduce a threshold temperature, above whiche phase
transition is smoother and there is less damage in the latice.

It may be coherent with Ed Storms theory, and his hypothesis that big
cracks are bad, and compete with smaller cracks that are however required,
and maybe produced by alpha-beta transition, but the smoother version...

all is about metallurgy.

2017-06-14 15:17 GMT+02:00 Jones Beene :

> Thanks. There is interesting information there.
>
> Armanet suggests that an equivalent of PdAg for LENR could be NiMn (as
> opposed to NiAg). Apparently this relates to a similarity in geometric
> spacing in the crystal.
>
> This equivalency may assume that the only purpose of the silver is to
> mechanically stabilize the matrix, which may not be the ultimate benefit of
> the alloy - if silver also is reactive for the nuclear tunneling of
> hydrogen.
>
> In terms of the active mechanism for gain, the emphasis on phase change by
> Armanet could open up an alternative mechanism. That would be coupling of
> nuclear spin/isospin to phase change.
>
>
>
>  Alain Sepeda wrote:
>
>> Nicolas Armanet talking of alpha-beta transition in Pd discussed Ni
>> during RNBE2016.
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[Jones Beene]

Thanks. There is interesting information there.

Armanet suggests that an equivalent of PdAg for LENR could be NiMn (as 
opposed to NiAg). Apparently this relates to a similarity in geometric 
spacing in the crystal.


This equivalency may assume that the only purpose of the silver is to 
mechanically stabilize the matrix, which may not be the ultimate benefit 
of the alloy - if silver also is reactive for the nuclear tunneling of 
hydrogen.


In terms of the active mechanism for gain, the emphasis on phase change 
by Armanet could open up an alternative mechanism. That would be 
coupling of nuclear spin/isospin to phase change.



 Alain Sepeda wrote:
Nicolas Armanet talking of alpha-beta transition in Pd discussed Ni 
during RNBE2016.

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[Alain Sepeda]

Nicolas Armanet talking of alpha-beta transition in Pd discussed Ni during
RNBE2016.
Ag in Pd alloy reduce one transition temperature in the alpha-beta phase
curve.
Ther is an equivalent for Ni, but I don't remember if it is Mn or Mg...

I noticed also that constantan contain Ni, Cu, but also one of Mn or Mg
(forgot which again)...
I've discussed on LENR forum when talking of RNBE2016...

2017-06-14 0:34 GMT+02:00 Jones Beene :

> Much has been said about Type A palladium and its special reactivity with
> hydrogen, some of which is due to the alloy being one fourth silver. Since
> pure palladium doesn't work as well, it might be said that most of the
> reactivity seen in cold fusion has been due to the special properties of
> the alloy, which is a 3:1 ratio (75% Pd 25% Ag).
>
> In many ways, nickel can be considered to be a surrogate of palladium.
> Nickel resides directly under Pd in the Periodic table, and has an
> identical valence electron structure. This leads one to wonder about an
> alloy of nickel and silver, based on transposing the results of cold fusion
> to protium, instead of deuterium.
>
...

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Tue, 13 Jun 2017 15:34:54 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>Electrolysis reactions would be more difficult to accomplish with powder 
>- and since this proposed work-around for silver/nickel insolubility 
>involves metal powders and mechanical alloying a different geometry 
>would be needed for the cell. However, powder has been used for 
>electrolysis electrodes before (as a colloid) - and it could be worth 
>the effort.
>
Just put the powder electrode on the bottom, and gravity will keep it in place.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html