Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
Google translated: From about 20 days are repeated trials and demonstrations in Milan only for customers and for about a couple of months in Canada forever just to customers. I see two problems with this marketing scheme. First, you need a magic crystal ball to know who your customers are. When you are selling things people often come to look, but it turns out they do not want the product or they are not serious customers. It is impossible for you to know who the real customers are ahead of time. It is impossible for the real customers themselves to know this. Second, your customers need ESP to find out about your product. Normally, a company advertises, and presents information on its website. People who are interested in a product find this information and learn what the company offers. If you do not make information generally available, you are invisible. In this case they are selling technology, so they need technical sales information, suitable for engineers. They have not yet published that sort of thing as far as I know. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
They are not fools. They are not doing that for customers. 2013/7/16 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com First, you need a magic crystal ball to know who your customers are. When you are selling things people often come to look, but it turns out they do not want the product or they are not serious customers. It is impossible for you to know who the real customers are ahead of time. It is impossible for the real customers themselves to know this. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: They are not fools. They are not doing that for customers. Then who are they doing it for? If a business does not do things for customers, it is not a business. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
Public awareness? 2013/7/16 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: They are not fools. They are not doing that for customers. Then who are they doing it for? If a business does not do things for customers, it is not a business. - Jed -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
2013/7/16 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com From what they said , it seems they have too many candidates. They seems like some LENR researchers I've heard about that they have more friend than can hold their agenda. It seems businessmen are more open than academics and media. the behavior of defkalion is more rational when they are silent than when they communicate... I put their imperfect communication on the pride, friendship, and other human diseases ;-). The finish of Etiam Oy, seems more... rational. Rossi is the opposite... anyway if they were rational they would be bankers.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
But politics is important in this business. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com Public awareness works for politics. Market awareness works for business. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
Public awareness works for politics. Market awareness works for business. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Public awareness? 2013/7/16 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: They are not fools. They are not doing that for customers. Then who are they doing it for? If a business does not do things for customers, it is not a business. - Jed -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
You want to know what it takes to overcome political opposition from bureaucratic insiders to outside competition: Look this guy uphttp://web.archive.org/web/20081212071704/http://www.geocities.com/jim_bowery/testimny.htm. He seems to have some experience dealing with that sort of thing. Clue: Defkalion's approach to politics has a log way to go and there is no evidence they are pursuing the route they need to make it work. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: But politics is important in this business. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com Public awareness works for politics. Market awareness works for business. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
The difference it is that you wanted to change a policy. They want to raise awareness about the existance of something. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com You want to know what it takes to overcome political opposition from bureaucratic insiders to outside competition: Look this guy uphttp://web.archive.org/web/20081212071704/http://www.geocities.com/jim_bowery/testimny.htm. He seems to have some experience dealing with that sort of thing. Clue: Defkalion's approach to politics has a log way to go and there is no evidence they are pursuing the route they need to make it work. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: But politics is important in this business. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com Public awareness works for politics. Market awareness works for business. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
If the point of raising public awareness is political then what is the point of pursuing politics if not to change policy? On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: The difference it is that you wanted to change a policy. They want to raise awareness about the existance of something. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com You want to know what it takes to overcome political opposition from bureaucratic insiders to outside competition: Look this guy uphttp://web.archive.org/web/20081212071704/http://www.geocities.com/jim_bowery/testimny.htm. He seems to have some experience dealing with that sort of thing. Clue: Defkalion's approach to politics has a log way to go and there is no evidence they are pursuing the route they need to make it work. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: But politics is important in this business. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com Public awareness works for politics. Market awareness works for business. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
Because you cannot do it without having proved the existance of something, that is, a high power reactor. So, you do both. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com If the point of raising public awareness is political then what is the point of pursuing politics if not to change policy? On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: The difference it is that you wanted to change a policy. They want to raise awareness about the existance of something. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com You want to know what it takes to overcome political opposition from bureaucratic insiders to outside competition: Look this guy uphttp://web.archive.org/web/20081212071704/http://www.geocities.com/jim_bowery/testimny.htm. He seems to have some experience dealing with that sort of thing. Clue: Defkalion's approach to politics has a log way to go and there is no evidence they are pursuing the route they need to make it work. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: But politics is important in this business. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com Public awareness works for politics. Market awareness works for business. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
As Alan Fletcher said Sounds even worse than a Rossi event. Rossi events don't prove the existence of anything significant. They raise public awareness and appear to have had no impact on *anything*. Oh, we can *speculate* about *invisible* impact, but the fact remains that there are no customers coming forth and saying that they have purchased a Rossi device, nor are there any changes in public policy nor even admitted behavior of stake-holding funding sources. Due to centralization, we live in a very perverse authority structure that, even when vital interests are at stake, is impervious to all but very carefully crafted presentations. Rossi's behavior I can understand if he's willing to sacrifice share-holder opportunity in order to buy further discredit of centralized authority structure. But when you have 2 competitors racing for the market, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that we are dealing with fools -- not in the technical sense, but in the sense of dealing with the perverse realities of current authority structures. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: Because you cannot do it without having proved the existance of something, that is, a high power reactor. So, you do both. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com If the point of raising public awareness is political then what is the point of pursuing politics if not to change policy? On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: The difference it is that you wanted to change a policy. They want to raise awareness about the existance of something. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com You want to know what it takes to overcome political opposition from bureaucratic insiders to outside competition: Look this guy uphttp://web.archive.org/web/20081212071704/http://www.geocities.com/jim_bowery/testimny.htm. He seems to have some experience dealing with that sort of thing. Clue: Defkalion's approach to politics has a log way to go and there is no evidence they are pursuing the route they need to make it work. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: But politics is important in this business. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com Public awareness works for politics. Market awareness works for business. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
*But in the sense of dealing with the perverse realities of current authority structures.* What is the best way to work within the current authority structures? It seems to me in this current day and age that the current authority structures are based on corporate control of governments by international companies who have the money, organization, propaganda outlets, and influence to move people and governments to their collective will. For example, maybe Fox news and Rupert Murdock would be an appropriated prototypical customer. A strategy based on this reality would be prudent, not bottom up popular attitude shifting. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 12:56 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: As Alan Fletcher said Sounds even worse than a Rossi event. Rossi events don't prove the existence of anything significant. They raise public awareness and appear to have had no impact on *anything*. Oh, we can *speculate* about *invisible* impact, but the fact remains that there are no customers coming forth and saying that they have purchased a Rossi device, nor are there any changes in public policy nor even admitted behavior of stake-holding funding sources. Due to centralization, we live in a very perverse authority structure that, even when vital interests are at stake, is impervious to all but very carefully crafted presentations. Rossi's behavior I can understand if he's willing to sacrifice share-holder opportunity in order to buy further discredit of centralized authority structure. But when you have 2 competitors racing for the market, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that we are dealing with fools -- not in the technical sense, but in the sense of dealing with the perverse realities of current authority structures. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: Because you cannot do it without having proved the existance of something, that is, a high power reactor. So, you do both. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com If the point of raising public awareness is political then what is the point of pursuing politics if not to change policy? On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: The difference it is that you wanted to change a policy. They want to raise awareness about the existance of something. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com You want to know what it takes to overcome political opposition from bureaucratic insiders to outside competition: Look this guy uphttp://web.archive.org/web/20081212071704/http://www.geocities.com/jim_bowery/testimny.htm. He seems to have some experience dealing with that sort of thing. Clue: Defkalion's approach to politics has a log way to go and there is no evidence they are pursuing the route they need to make it work. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: But politics is important in this business. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com Public awareness works for politics. Market awareness works for business. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
Think of civilization as a very primitive multicellular organism that takes humans and turns them into asexual cells that perform various specialized functions. When I say very primitive I mean you have to look back _far_ beyond 600 million years ago (the point at which cellular specialization reached its pinnacle in sexual reproduction) to find anything among multicellular organisms this primitive. The people are an illusion. They aren't people. They're poorly functioning specialized cells -- poorly functioning since they retain vestiges of their sexual individuality. Given that picture, you can start to see how these immobile organisms would have ridiculous immune systems and would be riddled with peripatetic parasites that jump from organism to organism exploiting their weaknesses and moving on before death of the organism. One of the key features of a virulent parasite like this is that it attack any nascent immune system and take it over -- sort of the way HIV infects the stem cells that are supposed to produce white blood cells and causes them to, instead, churn out HIV. The organisms these parasites infect are maintained in an utterly clueless state. So basically, you have to figure out how to trick the parasites into doing something that is more like what they would evolve to do if they werevertically transmitted (hence forced to evolve symbiosis) rather than horizontally transmitted from immobile host to immobile hosthttp://www.ted.com/talks/paul_ewald_asks_can_we_domesticate_germs.html. Careful, though if you are to open about what you are doing -- exposing the parasites as parasites -- there are mechanisms set up to sic the host immune system on you. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: *But in the sense of dealing with the perverse realities of current authority structures.* What is the best way to work within the current authority structures? It seems to me in this current day and age that the current authority structures are based on corporate control of governments by international companies who have the money, organization, propaganda outlets, and influence to move people and governments to their collective will. For example, maybe Fox news and Rupert Murdock would be an appropriated prototypical customer. A strategy based on this reality would be prudent, not bottom up popular attitude shifting. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 12:56 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: As Alan Fletcher said Sounds even worse than a Rossi event. Rossi events don't prove the existence of anything significant. They raise public awareness and appear to have had no impact on *anything*. Oh, we can *speculate* about *invisible* impact, but the fact remains that there are no customers coming forth and saying that they have purchased a Rossi device, nor are there any changes in public policy nor even admitted behavior of stake-holding funding sources. Due to centralization, we live in a very perverse authority structure that, even when vital interests are at stake, is impervious to all but very carefully crafted presentations. Rossi's behavior I can understand if he's willing to sacrifice share-holder opportunity in order to buy further discredit of centralized authority structure. But when you have 2 competitors racing for the market, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that we are dealing with fools -- not in the technical sense, but in the sense of dealing with the perverse realities of current authority structures. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: Because you cannot do it without having proved the existance of something, that is, a high power reactor. So, you do both. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com If the point of raising public awareness is political then what is the point of pursuing politics if not to change policy? On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: The difference it is that you wanted to change a policy. They want to raise awareness about the existance of something. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com You want to know what it takes to overcome political opposition from bureaucratic insiders to outside competition: Look this guy uphttp://web.archive.org/web/20081212071704/http://www.geocities.com/jim_bowery/testimny.htm. He seems to have some experience dealing with that sort of thing. Clue: Defkalion's approach to politics has a log way to go and there is no evidence they are pursuing the route they need to make it work. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: But politics is important in this business. 2013/7/16 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com Public awareness works for politics. Market awareness works for business. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
I see no evidence of any LENR related conference, presentation, showcase, unlike last year... Even Defkalion corrected the enthusiams of a reporter (Jeane Manning I think) who announced a demo at NIWeek... It seems NI was afraid that LENR may eclipse NI usual business. 2013/7/15 blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com Hi, I was wondering if anyone can confirm or has information about the likelihood of Defkalion demo'ing at NI-WEEK. Cheers, Blaze.
RE: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
I asked Defkalion directly and got a non committal reply- neither confirming or denying. We do not disclose what we will present in NI Week and ICCF-18. I would say that I will be doing a small demo there and the powers that be are aware of that. I don't think it is a mater of eclipsing NI. Dennis From: alain.sep...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 10:45:02 +0200 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm? To: vortex-l@eskimo.com I see no evidence of any LENR related conference, presentation, showcase, unlike last year...Even Defkalion corrected the enthusiams of a reporter (Jeane Manning I think) who announced a demo at NIWeek... It seems NI was afraid that LENR may eclipse NI usual business. 2013/7/15 blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com Hi, I was wondering if anyone can confirm or has information about the likelihood of Defkalion demo'ing at NI-WEEK. Cheers, Blaze.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
On 2013-07-15 16:01, DJ Cravens wrote: I asked Defkalion directly and got a non committal reply- neither confirming or denying. We do not disclose what we will present in NI Week and ICCF-18. This is unconfirmed news, but it seems there will be a Defkalion GT demo in Milan, Italy on July 22nd which will be live streamed on the internet and during ICCF18. Some skeptics, scientists and journalists from the international press have been invited to this demo. More details will be made available in due time. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
http://22passi.blogspot.fr/2013/07/stasera-defkalion-ospite-di-moebius.html#1373899462684 MYSTERY said ... @ Thu , 22 In the demo there will be a representative of CICAP, a physicist from what I understand, journalists from the BBC and will be streaming at the same time to another streaming dall'ICCF18, there will be enough room for other people, technicians, curious , etc.. From about 20 days are repeated trials and demonstrations in Milan only for customers and for about a couple of months in Canada forever just to customers. CICAP .. *CICAP, the Italian Committee for the Investigation of Claims on the Paranormal,* promotes a scientific and critical enquiry of supposed paranormal and mysterious phenomena Unconfirmed rumor at this point, but if true: (face palm) On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 7:15 AM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.comwrote: On 2013-07-15 16:01, DJ Cravens wrote: I asked Defkalion directly and got a non committal reply- neither confirming or denying. We do not disclose what we will present in NI Week and ICCF-18. This is unconfirmed news, but it seems there will be a Defkalion GT demo in Milan, Italy on July 22nd which will be live streamed on the internet and during ICCF18. Some skeptics, scientists and journalists from the international press have been invited to this demo. More details will be made available in due time. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
On 2013-07-16 03:23, blaze spinnaker wrote: Unconfirmed rumor at this point, but if true: (face palm) Towards the end (minute 32:50 onwards) of the following podcast (in Italian) of a radio show about science and technology (Moebius [1], from Radio24, an all-news radio station owned by the newspaper Il Sole24 Ore [2]) the hosts briefly mention that: - A cold fusion demo will take place on July 22nd at around 23:30-00:00 italian time; - They have been invited to participate in it and to bring an expert of their choice to supervise the demo and discuss about possible tricks; - More details about it (they hardly mention any during the show) and a live stream will be soon made available on the radio station website [3]; - They will cover this event again on their next show; + Other small things I might have missed (most of the segment is a quick overview of CF/LENR history and about how physics sometimes can appear to be settled science although it never really isn't). http://audio.radio24.ilsole24ore.com/radio24_audio/2013/130714-moebius.mp3 They don't directly link Defkalion GT to this demo, but the hearsay information I've read around (22passi like you pointed to and a different blog where the same author occasionally writes) does and seems reliable. So, it's still mostly unconfirmed news but a demo of some sort will most definitely occur on July 22nd. Cheers, S.A. [1] http://www.radio24.ilsole24ore.com/programma/moebius/index.php [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_24_%28Italy%29 [3] http://www.radio24.ilsole24ore.com/
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
They don't directly link Defkalion GT to this demo, but the hearsay information I've read around (22passi like you pointed to and a different blog where the same author occasionally writes) does and seems reliable. Which blog is that? I read about this via lenr-forum.com Alain is pretty good at spotting things quickly.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion to demo at NI-WEEK .. can anyone confirm?
From: blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 7:48:47 PM http://fusionefredda.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/preparata Google-translated comment : Andrea writes: July 15th, 2013 at 2:33 pm In the demo of 22 there will be a representative of CICAP, a physicist from what I understand, journalists from the BBC and will be streaming at the same time to another streaming dall'ICCF18, there will be enough room for other people, technicians, curious, etc. . From about 20 days are repeated trials and demonstrations in Milan only for customers and for about a couple of months in Canada forever just to customers. - - - - Sicks, if true. Sounds even worse than a Rossi event.
