Re: [Vo]:LENR, THERMODYNAMICS + ! GRAIN OF SALT

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:

One of the cornerstone assumptions that underpin the understanding of LENR
> is that the fundamental forces of nature are not really fundamental but
> emergent from more basic structures of reality.
>

That  is not "the" cornerstone assumption. It is *your* cornerstone
assumption. I do not know anyone else who thinks so.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR, THERMODYNAMICS + ! GRAIN OF SALT

[Jed Rothwell]

Peter Gluck  wrote:


> First thanks for coming with a new guru's teaching, the former one
> (Joe Murray) has inspired you  ideas as flow multiplier watermeters,
> half empty pipes inside a plant . . .
>

He did not inspire that. A gravity return pipe of this size carrying only 3
gpm has to be mostly empty. This cannot be more than 3 gpm, because that is
the upper limit of the pumps. The pipe at the flow meter is 3". Gravity
return capacity for a 3" pipe is 130 gpm, and this is only 3 gpm, so
obviously the pipe is mostly empty. See the gravity return column here:

https://www.slideshare.net/raju175/water-flow-pipe-sizes


The steam goes to the user plant where it is condensed . . .
>

It is hot water, not steam. Nothing is condensed.



> The water goes to the famous flowmeter and on that point it must be at
> least at 0.3 bars over atmospheric pressure, you know why!.
>

No, it has to be 1 atm. It is open to the air. You can see that from a
photo. That is also why we know it is gravity return.



> The in the reservoir which feeds the pumps of the E-Cats.
> You are right that at pressure a bit higher than the atmospheric water
> boils at say 104 C. There reverse is true and we have early used pressure
> cookers that boils usually at 112C.
>

The reverse may be true, but this pressure is above 1 atm. The pressure
gauge showing 0.0 bar was wrong. Therefore the boiling point was well over
100 deg C, and this was water, not steam. It could not have been 1 atm
because the water would not have flowed.



> Re the steam pipe, Smith is more generous than Murray who shrinked it to
> 40mm, he says it is 4.5inches- the pipe is actually 6 inches.
>

Penon said it was 1.5". If it were 2 feet in diameter that would make no
difference. It was still hot water.

Penon is not a reliable source of information so perhaps it was 4.5" or 6".

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR, THERMODYNAMICS + ! GRAIN OF SALT

[Peter Gluck]

Jed,
First thanks for coming with a new guru's teaching, the former one
(Joe Murray) has inspired you  ideas as flow multiplier watermeters,
half empty pipes inside a plant, a 40mm steam pipe and clairvoyant witnesses
all informing you to know that the watermeter is qudrupling the flow values.

You do not have more luck with this Mr. Smith yes both the steam at outlet
and the reservoir are at atmospheric pressure just underway many things and
pressures happen. The steam goes to the user plant where it is condensed
and, being given that the density of steam is some 0.6 kg/cu.m while water
is almost 1000kg/m- a lot of "negative" pressure - the necessaryy pressure
difference.appears. The water goes to the famous flowmeter and on that
point it must be at least at 0.3 bars over atmospheric pressure, you know
why!.The in the reservoir which feeds the pumps of the E-Cats.
You are right that at pressure a bit higher than the atmospheric water
boils at say 104 C. There reverse is true and we have early used pressure
cookers that boils usually at 112C. JUST this has nothing to do with the
case, 0 over the atmospheric pressure means OPEN for condensation.
Re the steam pipe, Smith is more generous than Murray who shrinked it to
40mm, he says it is 4.5inches- the pipe is actually 6 inches.
If you want to read a laudatio of your techno-guru 'perhaps what D.T. wrote
tioday at Rossi's JONP would be OK for you.
Peter

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 11:20 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> In Gluck's blog, he wrote:
>
> "A recent example is expert Rick Smith using them in order to demonstrate
> that the 1MW plant of Andrea Rossi has circulated water not steam and the
> steam - if formed could not be superheated- so he ignored one critical
> detail - that the fluid had a temperature of 103-104 C at atmospheric
> pressure . . ."
>
> It cannot be at atmospheric pressure. The reservoir is open to the air, so
> it is definitely at atmospheric pressure. The pressure gauge is located
> just downstream of the reactors, outside of the customer site. If both
> locations are at atmospheric pressure, no steam (or water) can flow from
> the reactor back to the reservoir. That is impossible. There *has to be*
> a pressure difference, as Smith explained.
>
> Therefore, the pressure gauge reading of 1 atmosphere must be wrong. (I
> assume it was supposed to be 0.0 barg, not bar -- which would be a vacuum.
> Either way, it is impossible.)
>
> The pressure must be higher than 1 atm. When it is just a little higher,
> the water will not boil at 103-104°C.
>
> This is elementary thermodynamics.
>
> See:
>
> EXPERT REPORT OF RICK A. SMITH, P.E., Document 235-1
>
> SUPPLEMENTAL EXPERT REPORT OF RICK A. SMITH, P.E., Document 235-10
>
> The Effects of Pressure on Boiling Point Temperatures
>
> http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/
> 01/0235.01_Exhibit_1.pdf
>
> http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/
> 01/0235.10_Exhibit_10.pdf
>
> https://durathermfluids.com/pdf/techpapers/pressure-boiling-point.pdf
>
> - Jed
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:LENR, THERMODYNAMICS + ! GRAIN OF SALT

[Axil Axil]

One of the cornerstone assumptions that underpin the understanding of LENR
is that the fundamental forces of nature are not really fundamental but
emergent from more basic structures of reality. Because the strong and the
weak force depend on other more fundamental aspects of reality, if those
more basic aspects change, so can the way that these forces of nature that
depend on these aspects can be made to change.

This realization that the forces of nature can change when the causation
changes is what understanding LENR is all about.

If one of these forces is shown to emerge from the basic structure of the
universe, then the other forces are also likely to emerge in the same way.
In this light, the work of Erik Verlinde explains in a new video, his
alternative theory about gravity. Verlinde presents gravity as an emergent
phenomenon. This means that at the very smallest scale gravity does not
exist. It is a consequence of the distribution of information in the
universe, which manifests at a larger scale.

Abstract by Erik Verlinde: Logically speaking the observed deviations from
the laws of gravity of Newton and Einstein in galaxies and clusters can be
either due to the presence of unseen dark matter particles or due to a
change in the way gravity works in these situations. Until recently there
appeared to be no reason to doubt that general relativity correctly
describes gravity in all circumstances. In the last few year insights from
black hole physics and string theory have led to important theoretical
advances in our understanding of gravity. A new theoretical framework is
being developed in which the gravitational laws are derived as emerging
from changes in the quantum entanglement of the microscopic information
that is underlying space-time. I will make clear that this new theory of
emergent gravity provides a conceptual explanation for why general
relativity receives modifications in galaxies and clusters. I will present
a quantitative estimate of these modifications and show that these agree
with the observed phenomena currently attributed to dark matter.

In like fashion, the strong and the weak force might also be derived as
emerging from changes in the quantum entanglement of the microscopic
information that is underlying space-time.

For more information, see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25IyrYltPPI

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2017/04/apr-7-2017-lenr-
> and-thermodynamics-1.html
>
>
> peter
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>

Re: [Vo]:LENR, THERMODYNAMICS + ! GRAIN OF SALT

[Jed Rothwell]

In Gluck's blog, he wrote:

"A recent example is expert Rick Smith using them in order to demonstrate
that the 1MW plant of Andrea Rossi has circulated water not steam and the
steam - if formed could not be superheated- so he ignored one critical
detail - that the fluid had a temperature of 103-104 C at atmospheric
pressure . . ."

It cannot be at atmospheric pressure. The reservoir is open to the air, so
it is definitely at atmospheric pressure. The pressure gauge is located
just downstream of the reactors, outside of the customer site. If both
locations are at atmospheric pressure, no steam (or water) can flow from
the reactor back to the reservoir. That is impossible. There *has to be* a
pressure difference, as Smith explained.

Therefore, the pressure gauge reading of 1 atmosphere must be wrong. (I
assume it was supposed to be 0.0 barg, not bar -- which would be a vacuum.
Either way, it is impossible.)

The pressure must be higher than 1 atm. When it is just a little higher,
the water will not boil at 103-104°C.

This is elementary thermodynamics.

See:

EXPERT REPORT OF RICK A. SMITH, P.E., Document 235-1

SUPPLEMENTAL EXPERT REPORT OF RICK A. SMITH, P.E., Document 235-10

The Effects of Pressure on Boiling Point Temperatures

http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/0235.01_Exhibit_1.pdf

http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/0235.10_Exhibit_10.pdf

https://durathermfluids.com/pdf/techpapers/pressure-boiling-point.pdf

- Jed