Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
On Sun, 2011-12-18 at 15:10 -0500, fznidar...@aol.com wrote: I don't know. The hotter the better the reaction. The hotter the more hydrogen is driven out and the worse the reaction. If I knew I would do it. But doesn't your theory revolve around the idea that the distances affected by the nuclear forces change when molecules vibrate at a specific frequency -- the frequency which will allow an impedance match between energy as it moves from inside a nucleus to outside the nucleus -- the frequency at which the individual molecules are vibrating at 1.094 MHz-meters? If so, then doesn't this translate into a specific temperature? Craig On Sun, 2011-12-18 at 15:10 -0500, fznidar...@aol.com wrote: I don't know. The hotter the better the reaction. The hotter the more hydrogen is driven out and the worse the reaction. If I knew I would do it. Frank Frank! As I understand your theory, you believe that cold fusion can be optimized within a lattice vibrating with an angular velocity of (1.094 / pi) meters / sec, right? Can you predict the optimum temperature of Rossi's nickel that would facilitate this effect? Craig Haynie Manchester, NH
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
On Dec 17, 2011, at 9:55 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: Here is where Frank Gordon and crew are working now. They are ready to remediate nuclear waste with their foils and they too are working under the radar, given the maturity of their knowledge and trade craft. SPAWAR / DOD says they know how to burn nuclear waste, DOE says that's impossible therefore not real. To admit that nuclear waste can be remediated with co-dep foils is to admit that all their energy clients are wrong. http:// www.globalenergycorporation.net/ Here is some stunning stuff: http://www.globalenergycorporation.net/Tech.aspx While there are numerous products possible, GEC is currently focusing on the GeNiE Hybrid Fusion, Fast-Fission Reactor that will use either natural uranium or existing hazardous waste as fuel. This is an amazing claim. Frank Gordon is a reliable scientist. The technology is apparently still not developed, but I think this kind of claim would not be made lightly. I have to wonder if the day has arrived or close to arriving that I need no longer concern myself with cold fusion and can go on to the other things in my queue. Perhaps they finally got around to testing tritium in their protocol, for reasons discussed on p. 29 of: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/CFnuclearReactions.pdf A DT reaction, even if by cold fusion, always produces a neutron. There is only one probably channel. For this reason I have suggested tritium doping of deuterium experiments is an important LENR diagnostic technique. I note there is no mention of cold fusion. This leads me to believe it is more likely the neutron source may be a DT neutron tube. For some background see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_generator Here is some background on neutron tubes from a now defunct web site: http://www.mfphysics.com/About%20NG.htm - About MF Physics Neutron Generators Neutron Sources Neutrons may be produced using a number of techniques including isotopic sources, small deuterium-tritium neutron generators, and large accelerators. Isotopic neutron sources produce continuous fluxes of neutrons. The most common isotopic source our neutrons is from spontaneous fission of Californium-252 (252Cf). The average energy of neutrons from 252Cf is 2.3 MeV. The half life is 2.6 years. Neutrons may also be produced by mixing an isotope which emits a particle with beryllium-9. Neutrons are produced by the (a, n) reaction with beryllium. Common (a,n) sources are: 239Pu with 9Be, 226Ra with 9Be, and 241Am with 9Be Isotopic neutron sources have the advantage having a long useful life and producing a relatively constant flux of neutrons. They may also be relatively inexpensive for low flux (108 neutrons per second) sources. However, isotopic sources have several disadvantages. The neutron output can not be turned off, requiring that they be contained within bulky shielding at all times. Isotopic neutron sources can not be pulsed and the energy spectrum of the emitted neutrons is broad and peaks at energies below the threshold for some important reactions. Neutron Generators Small neutron generators using the deuterium (2H) - tritium (3H) reaction are the most common accelerator based (as opposed to isotopic) neutron sources. Neutrons are produced by creating deuterium ions and accelerating these ions into a tritium or deuterium target. The D-D reaction is used only in special circumstances because the neutron yield from the D-T reaction is ~100 times higher. D + T¨ n + 4He En = 14.2 MeV D + D¨ n + 3He En = 2.5 MeV Yield(D,T) ~ 100 x Yield(D,D) Neutrons produced from the D-T reaction are emitted isotropically (uniformly in all directions) from the target. Neutron emission from the D-D reaction is slightly peaked in the forward (along the axis of the ion beam) direction. In both cases, the He nucleus (a particle) is emitted in the exact opposite direction of the neutron. Most small d-t accelerators are sealed tube neutron generators. The ion source, ion optics and the accelerator target are enclosed in within a vacuum tight enclosure. High voltage insulation between the ion optical elements of the tube is provided by either glass or ceramic insulators. The neutron tube is, in turn, enclosed in a metal housing, the accelerator head, which is filled with an dielectric media to insulate the high voltage elements of the tube from the laboratory surroundings. The accelerator and ion source high voltages are provided by external power supplies. The control console allows the operator to adjust the operating parameters of the neutron tube. The power supplies are normally located within 10-30 feet of the accelerator head. The Control Console may be located as far as 50-100 feet from the accelerator head. The basic features of a sealed neutron tube
Re:[Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
I've been lurking here for a couple of months now and have learned a great deal from all the comments. But reading this really saddened me. I truly hope that one day these so called scientists that refuse to admit there is something going on with CF or LENR end up being discredited and ripped apart by the media for only looking out for their own interests and not for the better of science. What goes round must come round. I wonder what this will do for Rossi if, as is speculated, SPAWAR was his secret customer?
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
snip I wonder what this will do for Rossi if, as is speculated, SPAWAR was his secret customer? /snip If Rossi were the customer and it worked, would they not be expanding the program. This suggests that nothing has happened. My papers also have fallen on mostly deaf ears. Personalty I have moved away from cold fusion and energy research. If I find some free time I will study Spanish or do something else. I would not want to wind up on my death bed and realize then that I had spent my entire life chasing a windmill. Without a dramatic new source energy, I see nothing but a continuing decline of our industrialized western society. No jobs, no marriages, no reason to study hard, and a virtual only life. I hope Rossi does it, I have been been burnt out for a long time. Frank Z
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
Without a dramatic new source energy, I see nothing but a continuing decline of our industrialized western society. No jobs, no marriages, no reason to study hard, and a virtual only life. I hope Rossi does it, I have been been burnt out for a long time. Frank Z Frank! As I understand your theory, you believe that cold fusion can be optimized within a lattice vibrating with an angular velocity of (1.094 / pi) meters / sec, right? Can you predict the optimum temperature of Rossi's nickel that would facilitate this effect? Craig Haynie Manchester, NH
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: With respect as I in no way mean to make this statement personal: What a load of self service CRAP. Are you blind as well as mentally impaired? That's not personal? If I said something like that about someone here, everyone would be talking about expelling me from the email list. Want respect? Get Rossi to agree to a proper test of an E-cat module (who cares about silly and unnecessary large collections of them under the misleading name of plants?). Better yet, get Rossi to name a single, credible and independent customer who can be interviewed and whose test results can be examined. It is absurd to say that Murray, Cude and I are against cold fusion/LENR. Nothing would please (and amuse) us more than if it worked robustly the way Rossi and Defkalion claim. So stop insulting people and start finding proof that Rossi has something -- not scattered bits of inconclusive evidence and improperly performed demonstrations but clear independent tests that prove it works. First, try to find a single solitary person or company other than someone connected to Rossi or some anonymous customer, who actually has a device and can talk about it.
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
Going through my notes again . . . I should say there is still some hope at SPAWAR that after-hours or weekend research may be allowed. They are still negotiating, so let us not raise a big stink about this. No point in riling up the opposition more than usual. They are discouraged. As I said, most cold fusion research is done on a shoestring, tucked away in a corner were the people in charge will not notice it. You have to keep a low profile in this business. So please do not write letters to the Navy demanding this be allowed. You will only make things worse. I will greatly regret relaying this news here if people bring pressure on the Navy, and the Navy makes life even more miserable for cold fusion researchers. The skeptics should feel free to keep writing to authorities. Mary Yugo should continue to respond to any mass media article in the comment section with unfounded, vile allegations of fraud and guilt by association, written under a a pen name. It is only words, and words have no consequences. You cannot make things worse than you already have. Maintain your unshakable conviction that anything you disagree with, you do not understand, or you have not bothered to read must be pathological science or fraud. We get it. Research you don't like must not be allowed. Ever. Even on weekends, done by 85-year-old professors. You want stasis and the end of science, and that is what you will get. As Martin Fleischmann said: People do not want progress. It makes them uncomfortable. They don't want it, and they shan't have it. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
As I said, most cold fusion research is done on a shoestring, tucked away in a corner were the people in charge will not notice it. You have to keep a low profile in this business. So please do not write letters to the Navy demanding this be allowed. You will only make things worse. I will greatly regret relaying this news here if people bring pressure on the Navy, and the Navy makes life even more miserable for cold fusion researchers. What difference does any of that make? Rossi is churning out megawatts of e-cats and Defkalion is preparing to sell their well-engineered devices. Customers will talk, they will show off their new toys, they will contact the highest officials. China will steal the technology and heat yurts in Tibet and sell e-cats to Sears. The battle has been won. The genie is out of the bottle. Rossi's demos have proven cold fusion is real. Haven't they?
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
This is kind of ironic.. Jed behaves as those Rossi's tests were faked and CF is still on shoe strings... 2011/12/18 Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com As I said, most cold fusion research is done on a shoestring, tucked away in a corner were the people in charge will not notice it. You have to keep a low profile in this business. So please do not write letters to the Navy demanding this be allowed. You will only make things worse. I will greatly regret relaying this news here if people bring pressure on the Navy, and the Navy makes life even more miserable for cold fusion researchers. What difference does any of that make? Rossi is churning out megawatts of e-cats and Defkalion is preparing to sell their well-engineered devices. Customers will talk, they will show off their new toys, they will contact the highest officials. China will steal the technology and heat yurts in Tibet and sell e-cats to Sears. The battle has been won. The genie is out of the bottle. Rossi's demos have proven cold fusion is real. Haven't they? -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I am sorry to report that the authorities have finally closed down cold fusion research at SAPWAR. After Frank Gordon left, the project was on life support. Recent reports on Fox News and elsewhere mentioned it, bringing about the inevitable coup de grace. Like most cold fusion projects, this was a shoestring or bootlegged operation. It was done by retired researchers such as Szpak, and others working nights and weekends. The equipment was scavenged or bought by private individuals. But, as we all know, people opposed to cold fusion will not tolerate any project, even if it costs essentially nothing. Academic freedom means nothing to them. It never occurs to them they might be wrong, because -- Like Park and Yugo -- they have read nothing and they know nothing. They make no distinction between cold fusion and a perpetual motion machines or water memory. Any research they disagree with *must not be allowed*, period. Nonsense. I have told you many times by private email and in public postings that I favor funding for cold fusion/LENR research. I'd like to see much more of it but I'd like to see it done better, with more use of gradient layer boundary calorimeters such as those that were made by Thermonetics. Of course I make a distinction between perpetual motion and water memory and cold fusion. The problem is that some cold fusion advocates degrade their credibility by pushing other nonsense like homeopathy and using water for fuel or magnetic motors that require no energy input. They support fools and crooks like Bedini, Dennis Lee, Thane and many others. Whenever cold fusion appears in the mass media I shudder, because I know it will trigger a backlash. Cold fusion researchers keep a low profile for a good reason. They know perfectly well that when some nitwit such as Krivit reveals there may be a source of funding, or a project being organized, that will trigger opposition. Robert Park will pull strings. Others will organize letter-writing campaigns. Mary Yugo will publish unfounded accusations of fraud and guilt by association. There is nothing unfounded about the disaster and high costs to Italy that came from Rossi's Petroldragon fiasco. There is no question that Rossi lied to and cheated the DOD when he proposed and could not demonstrate the construction of efficient thermoelectric devices. There is no question and even you agree that Rossi has resisted every opportunity for independent testing, even at no risk to his secrecy. He has also resisted all suggestions to improve his existing demos to where they could become less controversial-- again without risk or high cost or long delays.I have not accused Rossi of fraud. I have said and shown that his operation is very similar to those of Steorn, Sniffex, Carl Tilley and Dennis Lee (and others). And yes, those are frauds and scams. The people in charge of the Navy and the DoE know nothing about cold fusion, and they do not care about it. The interesting thing about cold fusion is that you can test a robust example of it without in any way understanding the mechanism. And almost everyone cares about a cheap and inexhaustible source of power. That's why all the scams out there like the ones I already mentioned and those that are like Bedini's have long lives. It's why Sterling Allan and Craig Brown and Paul Story can continue to run web sites that feature such nonsense as cars that run on water, overunity magnetic motors that require no energy, and even ideas everyone finds ridiculous such as that Obama went to Mars or that Iran captures US drones with flying saucers. Plenty of people in charge believe such things and much money is wasted on scams. The successor to the Sniffex one caused expenditure of almost $100 million dollars in Iraq, Thailand and even Afghanistan before it was (partly) shut down after costing perhaps hundreds of lives as well. Military leaders in several countries promoted the purchase of the ineffective, improperly tested and unproven explosive detector dowsing rod devices for as much as $80,000 per copy! You can convince some people of almost anything. Dowsing rod explosive detector scams still go on! Fortunately, Rossi and Defkalion are privately funded and immune to interference. Rossi is well aware of how academic politics work in the U.S. That is one of the reasons he has not made much of an effort to work with universities and national labs. Even if they get positive results, it will be reported as a failure and fraud. No it won't-- it can't. Look at NyTeknik's thorough if somewhat misguided reporting. Look at the articles about Rossi from Forbes and other main line news sources. Only AP held back and that's because Rossi invited them to a silly dog and pony show in which they were not allowed to see and verify and of the data being taken. Rossi has not made ANY effort to
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com wrote: The battle has been won. The genie is out of the bottle. Rossi's demos have proven cold fusion is real. Fleischmann, Will and McKubre proved cold fusion is real in 1990. That did not convince many people. It remains to be seen whether Rossi's demonstrations and sales will convince the wider world. Rossi has often botched opportunities and made things difficult for himself. Perhaps he will succeed, but it has not happened yet. So far every battle has been lost. Defkalion has not yet begun to fight. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Going through my notes again . . . I should say there is still some hope at SPAWAR that after-hours or weekend research may be allowed. They are still negotiating, so let us not raise a big stink about this. No point in riling up the opposition more than usual. They are discouraged. As I said, most cold fusion research is done on a shoestring, tucked away in a corner were the people in charge will not notice it. You have to keep a low profile in this business. So please do not write letters to the Navy demanding this be allowed. You will only make things worse. I will greatly regret relaying this news here if people bring pressure on the Navy, and the Navy makes life even more miserable for cold fusion researchers. The skeptics should feel free to keep writing to authorities. Mary Yugo should continue to respond to any mass media article in the comment section with unfounded, vile allegations of fraud and guilt by association, written under a a pen name. It is only words, and words have no consequences. In my public responses to overly optimistic and sometimes highly misleading main line news media reports and claims, I simply pointed out that Rossi had a checkered and controversial past which included two previous high profile technology failures followed by multiple legal charges and arrests. I also pointed out that he failed to get independent tests and failed to follow appropriate and clever suggestions for improving his own tests. I noted that he did not run long enough or make use of control/blank tests. That is simply the truth. It is not unfounded, vile allegations of fraud. I also noted that Rossi's modus operandi is in virtually EVERY WAY analogous to some recent flagrant scams involving investor (not customer) fraud. That's not guilt by association -- as far as I know, Rossi is not associated with any of the people I mentioned. It's an objective, independent and accurate set of observations -- something Rossi and other cold fusion proponents should try sometime.
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Nonsense. I have told you many times by private email and in public postings that I favor funding for cold fusion/LENR research. You say that, and I think you are sincere. But your actions prove you are deceiving yourself. You despise cold fusion. You are working tirelessly to prevent funding and destroy the field. Whenever it is mentioned in the mass media, you go to the comment section and fill it with unfounded, ignorant blather, technical mistakes about papers you have not read, guilt by associations, and baseless accusations of fraud. You and hundreds of others like you poison the well and destroy people's lives and careers with your reckless accusations. You think it is all a game, and words have no consequences. You pretend this does not matter. Ask yourself: Have you ever once, in the mass media, mentioned that there is quality work out there, or I favor funding for cold fusion? You say it here, to this audience. Have you written at Time magazine, or Fox News? I doubt it. You remind of elderly white bigots in Georgia who say they got along well with black people and loved them like family. Yet these people were in charge until the 1970s, and they maintained race divided schools in Atlanta, where the black schools had no books, no laboratory equipment, filthy bathrooms with backed up toilets, and such crowded classes that half the kids attended in the morning, and half in the afternoon, and most dropped out. This was a machine intended to destroy lives and keep people in dire poverty. The older people deny that is how things were. They say they didn't know, they never saw it. They deny it was their fault. But it was their fault. I'd like to see much more of it but I'd like to see it done better, with more use of gradient layer boundary calorimeters such as those that were made by Thermonetics. In other words, you want people to things your way, or the highway. To hell you would like to see this. You want this research ended. You think it is fraud and pathology. You read nothing, you know nothing, and yet yesterday you dismissed Pam Boss's work as a failure, based on EarthTech. You have never seen an experiment that meets your high standards, and you never will. Frankly, you should at least have the decency to use your real name, and say what you really believe, the way Robert Park does. I prefer him to you for the reasons Abraham Lincoln described in 1855: When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
It remains to be seen whether Rossi's demonstrations and sales will convince the wider world. How can they not? The October 28 customer has had the 50 e-cats for 6 weeks. I can hear the dialogue now: So how's it going with the e-cats, Manny? The sons-of-guns have been running for six weeks, Bob, and no sign of slowing down! It's the damndest thing Any luck on reverse engineering the core? Hell, yes! In fact, we are building them now. Our insider at Defkalion has given us the plans for their enhanced geometry, so that the reaction will be more controllable. Can we beat Rossi to the punch with a patent? I think so; the guy is a genius, but he tends to run off in all directions at once. Meanwhile, Chinese spies disguised as trustworthy visiting japanese researchers have been photographing the plans with a camera built into their horn-rimmed glasses and emailing them back to Beijing, where
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
please, continue :) 2011/12/18 Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com It remains to be seen whether Rossi's demonstrations and sales will convince the wider world. How can they not? The October 28 customer has had the 50 e-cats for 6 weeks. I can hear the dialogue now: So how's it going with the e-cats, Manny? The sons-of-guns have been running for six weeks, Bob, and no sign of slowing down! It's the damndest thing Any luck on reverse engineering the core? Hell, yes! In fact, we are building them now. Our insider at Defkalion has given us the plans for their enhanced geometry, so that the reaction will be more controllable. Can we beat Rossi to the punch with a patent? I think so; the guy is a genius, but he tends to run off in all directions at once. Meanwhile, Chinese spies disguised as trustworthy visiting japanese researchers have been photographing the plans with a camera built into their horn-rimmed glasses and emailing them back to Beijing, where -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: You remind of elderly white bigots in Georgia who say they got along well with black people and loved them like family. Yet these people were in charge until the 1970s, and they maintained race divided schools in Atlanta, where the black schools had no books, no laboratory equipment, filthy bathrooms with backed up toilets, and such crowded classes that half the kids attended in the morning, and half in the afternoon, and most dropped out. This was a machine intended to destroy lives and keep people in dire poverty. The older people deny that is how things were. They say they didn't know, they never saw it. They deny it was their fault. But it was their fault.SNIP Yikes!
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
Back to SPAWAR, why should we mix the point of view- killing of SPAWAR was the problem. Rossi is an entirely different problem When SPAWR started I was very busy working as a journalist, plus I could not feel much enthusiasm for it because it was not about energy. I have not understood its philosophy. In our (my OLTCHIM lab)practice of Project Management the very first question for any project was ; *What will it give us in case it is a perfect success?* Yes, what could give us a triumphant SPAWAR? My impression is that it had generated endless discussions about a poor man's method of measurement and not more.Was it really killed or has it comited a slow suicide? I humbly recognize thta I am not well informed in this case Peter On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 8:17 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: You remind of elderly white bigots in Georgia who say they got along well with black people and loved them like family. Yet these people were in charge until the 1970s, and they maintained race divided schools in Atlanta, where the black schools had no books, no laboratory equipment, filthy bathrooms with backed up toilets, and such crowded classes that half the kids attended in the morning, and half in the afternoon, and most dropped out. This was a machine intended to destroy lives and keep people in dire poverty. The older people deny that is how things were. They say they didn't know, they never saw it. They deny it was their fault. But it was their fault.SNIP Yikes! -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
I don't know. The hotter the better the reaction. The hotter the more hydrogen is driven out and the worse the reaction. If I knew I would do it. Frank Frank! As I understand your theory, you believe that cold fusion can be optimized within a lattice vibrating with an angular velocity of (1.094 / pi) meters / sec, right? Can you predict the optimum temperature of Rossi's nickel that would facilitate this effect? Craig Haynie Manchester, NH
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
At 12:31 PM 12/18/2011, Mary Yugo wrote: I also noted that Rossi's modus operandi is in virtually EVERY WAY analogous to some recent flagrant scams involving investor (not customer) fraud. That's not guilt by association -- as far as I know, Rossi is not associated with any of the people I mentioned. It's an objective, independent and accurate set of observations -- something Rossi and other cold fusion proponents should try sometime. I have not read everything Mary has written here, but from what I've seen, almost all of her criticism has been directed at some very obvious problems with the Rossi claims. Jed, you have previously stated that you have private information on which you base your conclusions as to the reality of Rossi. Please cut the rest of us some slack! We have no way of knowing if your private information is sound, or if you have been misled, or if you have drawn unsound conclusions from what you know. Mary, my big concern, expressed here and privately to LENR researchers, was that lack of caution with regard to Rossi's claims could damage the field by association. I'm still concerned about that. If Rossi's claims prove to be founded, it's all over, LENR is established, though the Rossi approach obviously would involve a different mechanism than those normally proposed for other LENR of the Pons-Fleischmann type. There has been sober review of LENR claims, and, over the last five years or so, the extreme skeptical position (Impossible!) has totally disappeared from peer-reviewed literature in relevant fields. The physicists have normally asserted a kind of primacy here, but cold fusion is a cross-disciplinary field, since the techniques involve chemistry and techniques familiar to chemists, such as electrolysis and reaction calorimetry. The status has long been that the majority opinion among physicists has been this cannot be nuclear physics, and the predominant position among chemists, especially electrochemists, has been this cannot be chemistry. I was aware of the flap in 1989, and had assumed, from what ensued, that it was all a mistake, until quite recently I had occasion to review the literature. It wasn't a mistake, the majority opinion among experts, my estimate, is now that there is anomalous heat being generated. It's not artifact, or if it is, it is one very unusual and very unexpected artifact, one that can baffle experts in calorimetry. In 1989, the DoE review concluded that more research was needed. That, however, was probably a political compromise. In 2004, it was the unanimous opinion of the reviewers. Politics, however, has still effectively continued to suppress research. Those reviews have been presented by skeptics as having rejected cold fusion. That's not the case, but it takes a careful study of the reports, which are available, to see this. What's clear, though, is the recommendation for research. That isn't done for a field that is clearly bogus. I've studied the 2004 report, and have concluded that the review paper failed to adequately communicate the primary evidence that, not only are nuclear reactions taking place, but the ash is helium. That paper was written by researchers who wrote it in academic fashion, not as polemic. They did present most of the evidence for the heat/helium correlation, but it was confused by a confusing appendix, and at least one reviewer and the bureaucrat who summarized the reviews, both of them, radically misinterpreted the appendix, turning what was very strong evidence for heat helium, into the opposite, anti-correlation. Huizenga, the co-chair of the first DoE review in 1989, called Cold fusion The Scientific Fiasco of the Century, as the title of his book. He was right. It's an amazing story of the breakdown of scientific protocols and traditions. It is as if polywater and N-rays had been rejected only on theoretical grounds, without ever identifying the artifacts behind those erroneous claims. There is anomalous heat, and helium is being generated correlated with that heat. There are disagreements over the heat/helium ratio, and the measurement is difficult, but it's been quite adequately confirmed to establish the correlation within about a factor of two of the value expected from deuterium fusion. LENR researchers are more inclined than other scientists to accept Rossi's claims because they know that LENR is generally possible. However, as I pointed out, possible does not establish probable, and there have been lots of red herrings and blind alleys in LENR research. Indeed, if Rossi is a scammer, we would not be surprised to see him taking advantage of a knowledge of possibility. It's possible that I have a piece of paper purporting to be a deed to the land on which the Brooklyn Bridge sits, eh? I'm offering it for cheap because I need some cash. That's not only possible, it's true! At least about the cash!
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
It appears that the research at SAPWAR is being shut down at the wrong time. The demonstrations of Rossi and others should make those in charge take a short pause at least. The importance of LENR to the future of the world is going to be immense once it becomes mainstream and it is fortunate indeed that private individuals like Rossi can carry the load without interference from shortsighted people such as you mention. I can understand that some of the skeptic posters on vortex are truly convinced that LENR is not real and they know that some form of trick or scam must be present to explain away any measurement that suggests excess nuclear energy. To them it is just a manner of uncovering the facts and the trickery is revealed. There is absolutely no chance that the effects seen are possible. They suggest phenomenon that are far out in left field instead of accept the simple facts. The only way that these skeptics will be convinced is when LENR devices are widely distributed in practice and can no longer be denied. The others you mention are just a pathetic group indeed. Anyone that actively destroys the career of another needs to have the same done to them at some point. Did the thought ever occur to them that they might be wrong in their assumptions? Who revealed to them the great truths of nature? Why should their opinions be final when it is obvious that there is much to be learned about the universe? In my opinion it is the pinnacle of ignorance to think that you understand all of the truths of nature. Everyone with that belief is going to be humbled by future developments. If someone can not contribute to important developments, at least they should not hinder them. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:45 pm Subject: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research I am sorry to report that the authorities have finally closed down cold fusion research at SAPWAR. After Frank Gordon left, the project was on life support. Recent reports on Fox News and elsewhere mentioned it, bringing about the inevitable coup de grace. Like most cold fusion projects, this was a shoestring or bootlegged operation. It was done by retired researchers such as Szpak, and others working nights and weekends. The equipment was scavenged or bought by private individuals. But, as we all know, people opposed to cold fusion will not tolerate any project, even if it costs essentially nothing. Academic freedom means nothing to them. It never occurs to them they might be wrong, because -- Like Park and Yugo -- they have read nothing and they know nothing. They make no distinction between cold fusion and a perpetual motion machines or water memory. Any research they disagree with must not be allowed, period. Whenever cold fusion appears in the mass media I shudder, because I know it will trigger a backlash. Cold fusion researchers keep a low profile for a good reason. They know perfectly well that when some nitwit such as Krivit reveals there may be a source of funding, or a project being organized, that will trigger opposition. Robert Park will pull strings. Others will organize letter-writing campaigns. Mary Yugo will publish unfounded accusations of fraud and guilt by association. You can see the dynamic at work in this article, where someone is trying to shut down NASA interest in cold fusion: Why is NASA Langley Wasting Time on Cold Fusion Research? http://nasawatch.com/archives/2011/12/why-is-nasa-lan.html The people in charge of the Navy and the DoE know nothing about cold fusion, and they do not care about it. When they get letters from scientists or members of the public saying someone in your organization is committing fraud they do not ask questions. They close it down, whatever it is. Their main concern is their public image with the taxpayers. The last thing they need is to be accused of countenancing academic fraud or crazy research. This has been happening for 22 years. Given this environment, it is surprising that cold fusion survived at all. Dozens of projects such as this one and the one at MIT were crushed, mostly without ever being allowed to publish anything, and without any knowledge by the public. I knew about the MIT project described by Stolper because Gene Mallove was involved, and he was reporting to me. I was helping to fund things like this. No one else ever learned about it because it worked. Any time positive results are achieved, the opposition will pull out the stops to have the researchers fired or pushed into final retirement. That's how it works. That is why I and others gave up even trying to establish projects at major institutions years ago. We know how it will end. That is why I think there no hope of funding Miley et al., and no point. Sure it would be important work. But it is not worth getting some poor
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
I'm only small fish and late to the party. I do wish I was around when your friend Eugene Mallove was alive. I may have ended up very bloody and lying in the gutter but I would have put up a fight for what was right. I admire your tenacity. I will do whatever I can to get a LENR unit working closed loop and delivering excess electricity to a load. After that PF, Mallove and you deserve a Nobel. Them for Physics and you and Mallove for Peace in never giving up on your friends nor in what you believe is right. Many people and their lives will benefit in ways no one can foresee today because of what PF, Mallove and yourself have done. On 12/18/2011 9:15 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: I am sorry to report that the authorities have finally closed down cold fusion research at SAPWAR. After Frank Gordon left, the project was on life support. Recent reports on Fox News and elsewhere mentioned it, bringing about the inevitable coup de grace. Like most cold fusion projects, this was a shoestring or bootlegged operation. It was done by retired researchers such as Szpak, and others working nights and weekends. The equipment was scavenged or bought by private individuals. But, as we all know, people opposed to cold fusion will not tolerate any project, even if it costs essentially nothing. Academic freedom means nothing to them. It never occurs to them they might be wrong, because -- Like Park and Yugo -- they have read nothing and they know nothing. They make no distinction between cold fusion and a perpetual motion machines or water memory. Any research they disagree with _must not be allowed_, period. Whenever cold fusion appears in the mass media I shudder, because I know it will trigger a backlash. Cold fusion researchers keep a low profile for a good reason. They know perfectly well that when some nitwit such as Krivit reveals there may be a source of funding, or a project being organized, that will trigger opposition. Robert Park will pull strings. Others will organize letter-writing campaigns. Mary Yugo will publish unfounded accusations of fraud and guilt by association. You can see the dynamic at work in this article, where someone is trying to shut down NASA interest in cold fusion: Why is NASA Langley Wasting Time on Cold Fusion Research? http://nasawatch.com/archives/2011/12/why-is-nasa-lan.html The people in charge of the Navy and the DoE know nothing about cold fusion, and they do not care about it. When they get letters from scientists or members of the public saying someone in your organization is committing fraud they do not ask questions. They close it down, whatever it is. Their main concern is their public image with the taxpayers. The last thing they need is to be accused of countenancing academic fraud or crazy research. This has been happening for 22 years. Given this environment, it is surprising that cold fusion survived at all. Dozens of projects such as this one and the one at MIT were crushed, mostly without ever being allowed to publish anything, and without any knowledge by the public. I knew about the MIT project described by Stolper because Gene Mallove was involved, and he was reporting to me. I was helping to fund things like this. No one else ever learned about it because it worked. Any time positive results are achieved, the opposition will pull out the stops to have the researchers fired or pushed into final retirement. That's how it works. That is why I and others gave up even trying to establish projects at major institutions years ago. We know how it will end. That is why I think there no hope of funding Miley et al., and no point. Sure it would be important work. But it is not worth getting some poor grad student in trouble, or ruining her career prospects. The results will be bottled up, the grad student's reputation torn to shreds by nitwits, and the mass media will report only lies and distortions. Yeah, I may get another informal positive result I can upload to LENR-CANR.org, but that is not worth destroying someone's career. It won't change anything. Fortunately, Rossi and Defkalion are privately funded and immune to interference. Rossi is well aware of how academic politics work in the U.S. That is one of the reasons he has not made much of an effort to work with universities and national labs. Even if they get positive results, it will be reported as a failure and fraud. That is what happened to the National Cold Fusion Institute, and the Japanese NEDO project. When Miles demonstrated heat at the NEDO over a few weeks, the scientifically trained bureaucrats in charge, who were in the same building, _refused to get up, walk down the hall, and look_. Talk about willful ignorance! Mary Yugo has nothing on them. They were busy writing a report saying that no positive results were achieved. They published that in Japanese soon after Miles left and the project was shut down. Perhaps they hoped Miles
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
Hey, Joshua Cude, Mary Yugo, and Rich Murray are not vengeful, irrational, dogmatic opponents of CF in any of its forms -- it is simply contrary to the record of their posts on Vortex-L and other public forums to denigrate them in this unworthy and untrue way -- they are simply participating competently in the essential role of skepticism, without which there can be only feeble scientific progress in new directions in any field -- ad hominem attacks are hardly evidence that all CF proponents are truly confident of the reality of CF -- it's been 22 years since 1989, with still no actual specific device operating at any lab, let alone at independent labs, producing any anomaly with clearcut evidence, following a specific protocol -- nor is there any progress towards mathematically specific and correct theory -- an obvious fraud, BlackLight Power by Randall Mills, is still widely described as accepted science by the CF pros -- lashing out at reasonable careful skeptics is hardly a strategy for attracting thoughtful competent collaborators into our networks -- in the last year I have brought up some studies that describe interesting possible anomalies, such as claimed transmutations in water tree corrosion of high density polyethylene in high voltage AC power cables... SPAWAR never responded to a specific critique by Murray in recent years that pointed out, contrary to their assumptions, an external electric field has no physical effects within the volume of a conductive electrolyte, except for possible tiny leakage currents... within mutual service, Rich Murray, 254-A Donax Avenue, Imperial Beach, CA 91932 505-819-7388 On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: I'm only small fish and late to the party. I do wish I was around when your friend Eugene Mallove was alive. I may have ended up very bloody and lying in the gutter but I would have put up a fight for what was right. I admire your tenacity. I will do whatever I can to get a LENR unit working closed loop and delivering excess electricity to a load. After that PF, Mallove and you deserve a Nobel. Them for Physics and you and Mallove for Peace in never giving up on your friends nor in what you believe is right. Many people and their lives will benefit in ways no one can foresee today because of what PF, Mallove and yourself have done. On 12/18/2011 9:15 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: I am sorry to report that the authorities have finally closed down cold fusion research at SAPWAR. After Frank Gordon left, the project was on life support. Recent reports on Fox News and elsewhere mentioned it, bringing about the inevitable coup de grace. Like most cold fusion projects, this was a shoestring or bootlegged operation. It was done by retired researchers such as Szpak, and others working nights and weekends. The equipment was scavenged or bought by private individuals. But, as we all know, people opposed to cold fusion will not tolerate any project, even if it costs essentially nothing. Academic freedom means nothing to them. It never occurs to them they might be wrong, because -- Like Park and Yugo -- they have read nothing and they know nothing. They make no distinction between cold fusion and a perpetual motion machines or water memory. Any research they disagree with _must not be allowed_, period. Whenever cold fusion appears in the mass media I shudder, because I know it will trigger a backlash. Cold fusion researchers keep a low profile for a good reason. They know perfectly well that when some nitwit such as Krivit reveals there may be a source of funding, or a project being organized, that will trigger opposition. Robert Park will pull strings. Others will organize letter-writing campaigns. Mary Yugo will publish unfounded accusations of fraud and guilt by association. You can see the dynamic at work in this article, where someone is trying to shut down NASA interest in cold fusion: Why is NASA Langley Wasting Time on Cold Fusion Research? http://nasawatch.com/archives/2011/12/why-is-nasa-lan.html The people in charge of the Navy and the DoE know nothing about cold fusion, and they do not care about it. When they get letters from scientists or members of the public saying someone in your organization is committing fraud they do not ask questions. They close it down, whatever it is. Their main concern is their public image with the taxpayers. The last thing they need is to be accused of countenancing academic fraud or crazy research. This has been happening for 22 years. Given this environment, it is surprising that cold fusion survived at all. Dozens of projects such as this one and the one at MIT were crushed, mostly without ever being allowed to publish anything, and without any knowledge by the public. I knew about the MIT project described by Stolper because Gene Mallove was involved, and he was reporting to me. I was helping to fund things like this. No
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
With respect as I in no way mean to make this statement personal: What a load of self service CRAP. Are you blind as well as mentally impaired? Do you ONLY see and read what you wish to see and read to support such a BS statement? On 12/18/2011 3:06 PM, Rich Murray wrote: ...it's been 22 years since 1989, with still no actual specific device operating at any lab, let alone at independent labs, producing any anomaly with clearcut evidence, following a specific protocol...
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
Tell you want Joshua Cude, Rich Murray and Mary Yugo, choke on this as you work you way through the data. There are other proofs besides CR-39 in the video. Film fogs, gamma detectors, the hot spot video, the piezoelectric spikes, etc. I think I counted thirteen different proofs that are redundant in making the case for anomalous heat. The SEM microcraters with transmuted crusts don't need CR-39 to show nuclear energetics. This lecture is the touchstone for an emerging industry. The co-dep foils are energetic enough to reduce uranium and nuclear wastes in wet cells. Here are the powerpoint and PDF files for the lecture. Enjoy: http://bisbee.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/spawar.ppt http://bisbee.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/SPAWAR-MAY-9-2009.pdf Here is where Frank Gordon and crew are working now. They are ready to remediate nuclear waste with their foils and they too are working under the radar, given the maturity of their knowledge and trade craft. SPAWAR / DOD says they know how to burn nuclear waste, DOE says that's impossible therefore not real. To admit that nuclear waste can be remediated with co-dep foils is to admit that all their energy clients are wrong. http://www.globalenergycorporation.net/ On 12/18/2011 3:06 PM, Rich Murray wrote: Hey, Joshua Cude, Mary Yugo, and Rich Murray are not vengeful, irrational, dogmatic opponents of CF in any of its forms -- it is simply contrary to the record of their posts on Vortex-L and other public forums to denigrate them in this unworthy and untrue way -- they are simply participating competently in the essential role of skepticism, without which there can be only feeble scientific progress in new directions in any field -- ad hominem attacks are hardly evidence that all CF proponents are truly confident of the reality of CF -- it's been 22 years since 1989, with still no actual specific device operating at any lab, let alone at independent labs, producing any anomaly with clearcut evidence, following a specific protocol -- nor is there any progress towards mathematically specific and correct theory -- an obvious fraud, BlackLight Power by Randall Mills, is still widely described as accepted science by the CF pros -- lashing out at reasonable careful skeptics is hardly a strategy for attracting thoughtful competent collaborators into our networks -- in the last year I have brought up some studies that describe interesting possible anomalies, such as claimed transmutations in water tree corrosion of high density polyethylene in high voltage AC power cables... SPAWAR never responded to a specific critique by Murray in recent years that pointed out, contrary to their assumptions, an external electric field has no physical effects within the volume of a conductive electrolyte, except for possible tiny leakage currents... within mutual service, Rich Murray, 254-A Donax Avenue, Imperial Beach, CA 91932 505-819-7388 On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: I'm only small fish and late to the party. I do wish I was around when your friend Eugene Mallove was alive. I may have ended up very bloody and lying in the gutter but I would have put up a fight for what was right. I admire your tenacity. I will do whatever I can to get a LENR unit working closed loop and delivering excess electricity to a load. After that PF, Mallove and you deserve a Nobel. Them for Physics and you and Mallove for Peace in never giving up on your friends nor in what you believe is right. Many people and their lives will benefit in ways no one can foresee today because of what PF, Mallove and yourself have done. On 12/18/2011 9:15 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: I am sorry to report that the authorities have finally closed down cold fusion research at SAPWAR. After Frank Gordon left, the project was on life support. Recent reports on Fox News and elsewhere mentioned it, bringing about the inevitable coup de grace. Like most cold fusion projects, this was a shoestring or bootlegged operation. It was done by retired researchers such as Szpak, and others working nights and weekends. The equipment was scavenged or bought by private individuals. But, as we all know, people opposed to cold fusion will not tolerate any project, even if it costs essentially nothing. Academic freedom means nothing to them. It never occurs to them they might be wrong, because -- Like Park and Yugo -- they have read nothing and they know nothing. They make no distinction between cold fusion and a perpetual motion machines or water memory. Any research they disagree with _must not be allowed_, period. Whenever cold fusion appears in the mass media I shudder, because I know it will trigger a backlash. Cold fusion researchers keep a low profile for a good reason. They know perfectly well that when some nitwit such as Krivit reveals there may be a source of funding, or a project being organized, that will trigger opposition. Robert Park will pull
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
24 more peer reviewed LENR papers for you guys to read: http://www.globalenergycorporation.net/Publications.aspx On 12/18/2011 3:06 PM, Rich Murray wrote: Hey, Joshua Cude, Mary Yugo, and Rich Murray are not vengeful, irrational, dogmatic opponents of CF in any of its forms -- it is simply contrary to the record of their posts on Vortex-L and other public forums to denigrate them in this unworthy and untrue way -- they are simply participating competently in the essential role of skepticism, without which there can be only feeble scientific progress in new directions in any field -- ad hominem attacks are hardly evidence that all CF proponents are truly confident of the reality of CF -- it's been 22 years since 1989, with still no actual specific device operating at any lab, let alone at independent labs, producing any anomaly with clearcut evidence, following a specific protocol -- nor is there any progress towards mathematically specific and correct theory -- an obvious fraud, BlackLight Power by Randall Mills, is still widely described as accepted science by the CF pros -- lashing out at reasonable careful skeptics is hardly a strategy for attracting thoughtful competent collaborators into our networks -- in the last year I have brought up some studies that describe interesting possible anomalies, such as claimed transmutations in water tree corrosion of high density polyethylene in high voltage AC power cables... SPAWAR never responded to a specific critique by Murray in recent years that pointed out, contrary to their assumptions, an external electric field has no physical effects within the volume of a conductive electrolyte, except for possible tiny leakage currents... within mutual service, Rich Murray, 254-A Donax Avenue, Imperial Beach, CA 91932 505-819-7388 On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: I'm only small fish and late to the party. I do wish I was around when your friend Eugene Mallove was alive. I may have ended up very bloody and lying in the gutter but I would have put up a fight for what was right. I admire your tenacity. I will do whatever I can to get a LENR unit working closed loop and delivering excess electricity to a load. After that PF, Mallove and you deserve a Nobel. Them for Physics and you and Mallove for Peace in never giving up on your friends nor in what you believe is right. Many people and their lives will benefit in ways no one can foresee today because of what PF, Mallove and yourself have done. On 12/18/2011 9:15 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: I am sorry to report that the authorities have finally closed down cold fusion research at SAPWAR. After Frank Gordon left, the project was on life support. Recent reports on Fox News and elsewhere mentioned it, bringing about the inevitable coup de grace. Like most cold fusion projects, this was a shoestring or bootlegged operation. It was done by retired researchers such as Szpak, and others working nights and weekends. The equipment was scavenged or bought by private individuals. But, as we all know, people opposed to cold fusion will not tolerate any project, even if it costs essentially nothing. Academic freedom means nothing to them. It never occurs to them they might be wrong, because -- Like Park and Yugo -- they have read nothing and they know nothing. They make no distinction between cold fusion and a perpetual motion machines or water memory. Any research they disagree with _must not be allowed_, period. Whenever cold fusion appears in the mass media I shudder, because I know it will trigger a backlash. Cold fusion researchers keep a low profile for a good reason. They know perfectly well that when some nitwit such as Krivit reveals there may be a source of funding, or a project being organized, that will trigger opposition. Robert Park will pull strings. Others will organize letter-writing campaigns. Mary Yugo will publish unfounded accusations of fraud and guilt by association. You can see the dynamic at work in this article, where someone is trying to shut down NASA interest in cold fusion: Why is NASA Langley Wasting Time on Cold Fusion Research? http://nasawatch.com/archives/2011/12/why-is-nasa-lan.html The people in charge of the Navy and the DoE know nothing about cold fusion, and they do not care about it. When they get letters from scientists or members of the public saying someone in your organization is committing fraud they do not ask questions. They close it down, whatever it is. Their main concern is their public image with the taxpayers. The last thing they need is to be accused of countenancing academic fraud or crazy research. This has been happening for 22 years. Given this environment, it is surprising that cold fusion survived at all. Dozens of projects such as this one and the one at MIT were crushed, mostly without ever being allowed to publish anything, and without any knowledge by the public. I knew about the MIT project described
