Re: [Vo]:Proximate Significance of the E-Cat HT Paper
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: The proximate significance of this paper, therefore, is now outside of academic discourse entirely and threatens the stability of the media and political echo-chamber. How? Because this is a commercial device and rational evaluation of the paper is going to motivate money. Yes, I agree. I would say I think it will motivate money. I *hope* it will! I have some specific money in mind. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Proximate Significance of the E-Cat HT Paper
The article make the buzz worldwide, as if there was many lurkers entrenched and waiting for real news (would be rational). there is already people prepared to oil the revolution... http://www.lenr-forum.com/showthread.php?1514-LENR-Cities-to-propose-it-s-project-to-Neuchatel-(Switzerland) http://www.lenrnews.eu/new-leap-in-ecosystem-development-with-lenr-cities-and-lenr-invest/ ... 2013/5/20 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: The proximate significance of this paper, therefore, is now outside of academic discourse entirely and threatens the stability of the media and political echo-chamber. How? Because this is a commercial device and rational evaluation of the paper is going to motivate money. Yes, I agree. I would say I think it will motivate money. I *hope* it will! I have some specific money in mind. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Proximate Significance of the E-Cat HT Paper
Looking at this paper on the cost components of coal fired power plants: http://cedm.epp.cmu.edu/files/workingpapers/Trancik-Coal_Energy_Policy.pdf it is clear that although the capital service cost remains, and represents 50% of the delivered electrical cost, an appropriately engineered drop-in replacement E-Cat HT boiler would bring down the fuel and OM costs dramatically. On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 3:13 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Two things are clear: 1) The E-Cat HT paper will not have a proximate effect on the academic discourse, as it is not independently peer-reviewed and published. 2) The pseudo-skeptics have long-ago lost the academic discourse -- having abandoned any participation in the peer-reviewed independently published literature and have been completely reliant on the media and political echo-chamberhttp://newenergytimes.com/v2/audio/Beaudette-MIT-04062004.mp3 . The proximate significance of this paper, therefore, is now outside of academic discourse entirely and threatens the stability of the media and political echo-chamber. How? Because this is a commercial device and rational evaluation of the paper is going to motivate money.
RE: [Vo]:Proximate Significance of the E-Cat HT Paper
From: Alain Sepeda The article makes the buzz worldwide, as if there was many lurkers entrenched and waiting for real news (would be rational). there is already people prepared to oil the revolution... Speaking of oil - when you think about the big picture and look for the potential bottlenecks which are foreseeable, based upon what is in the public record - one is becoming obvious: enriching nickel in the rare isotope nickel-62 which is less than 4% of the natural metal. The other is what to do with Big Oil . to minimize obstruction. BTW - the way Rossi's patent is worded, only Ni-62 is protected. This points to the need for a National effort for optimized enrichment of the isotope, if it will really replace oil. For gas centrifuge enrichment, nickel is known to form one gaseous molecule, which is fluoride based, so that is no problem given the similarity to present mature processes for U-235. In fact, there is every likelihood that the same plants which enrich Uranium can be converted for nickel enrichment. If the access to the gas centrifuge process is going to be required for this kind of device to succeed- then this will be a major political issue in the end. This is problematic, since control of politics usually get back to wealth, and wealth gets back to Oil. The candidate who wishes to become the next in line after Obama would be wise to get on this bandwagon at an early stage. However, that candidate will probably have to stand up against Big Oil, early-on - since any expedited effort to get LENR into production will hurt that industry eventually but may depend on access to ultracentrifuge plants. May you live in interesting times. .that is going to be our collective curse, or opportunity .depending on a few political decisions soon to be on the horizon. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Proximate Significance of the E-Cat HT Paper
Gravity [edithttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Isotope_separationaction=editsection=11 ] Isotopes of Carbon, Oxygen, and Nitrogen can be purified by chilling these gases or compounds nearly to their liquification temperature in very tall columns (200 to 700 feet tall—70 to 200 meters). The heavier isotopes sink and the lighter isotopes rise, where they are easily collected. The process was developed in the late 1960s by scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory.[8] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotope_separation#cite_note-8 This process is also called cryogenic distillation.[9]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotope_separation#cite_note-9 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotope_separation#Gravity On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: ** ** *From:* Alain Sepeda** The article makes the buzz worldwide, as if there was many lurkers entrenched and waiting for real news (would be rational). there is already people prepared to oil the revolution... ** ** Speaking of “oil” - when you think about the big picture and look for the potential bottlenecks which are foreseeable, based upon what is in the public record – one is becoming obvious: enriching nickel in the rare isotope nickel-62 which is less than 4% of the natural metal. The other is what to do with Big Oil … to minimize obstruction. ** ** BTW - the way Rossi’s patent is worded, only Ni-62 is protected. This points to the need for a National effort for optimized enrichment of the isotope, if it will really replace oil. ** ** For gas centrifuge enrichment, nickel is known to form one gaseous molecule, which is fluoride based, so that is no problem given the similarity to present mature processes for U-235. In fact, there is every likelihood that the same plants which enrich Uranium can be converted for nickel enrichment. ** ** If the access to the gas centrifuge process is going to be required for this kind of device to succeed– then this will be a major political issue in the end. This is problematic, since control of politics usually get back to wealth, and wealth gets back to Oil. ** ** The candidate who wishes to become the next in line after Obama would be wise to get on this bandwagon at an early stage. However, that candidate will probably have to stand up against Big Oil, early-on - since any expedited effort to get LENR into production will hurt that industry eventually but may depend on access to ultracentrifuge plants. ** ** May you live in interesting times… ** ** …that is going to be our collective curse, or opportunity …depending on a few political decisions soon to be on the horizon. ** ** Jones
Re: [Vo]:Proximate Significance of the E-Cat HT Paper
The candidate who wishes to become the next in line after Obama would be wise to get on this bandwagon at an early stage. However, that candidate will probably have to stand up against Big Oil, early-on - since any expedited effort to get LENR into production will hurt hat industry eventually but may depend on access to ultracentrifuge plants. ***Romney said this: http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/992671#.UEjSSc3TlfP I do believe in basic science. I believe in participating in space. I believe in analysis of new sources of energy. I believe in laboratories, looking at ways to conduct electricity with -- with cold fusion, if we can come up with it. It was the University of Utah that solved that. We somehow can’t figure out how to duplicate it. On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: ** ** *From:* Alain Sepeda** The article makes the buzz worldwide, as if there was many lurkers entrenched and waiting for real news (would be rational). there is already people prepared to oil the revolution... ** ** Speaking of “oil” - when you think about the big picture and look for the potential bottlenecks which are foreseeable, based upon what is in the public record – one is becoming obvious: enriching nickel in the rare isotope nickel-62 which is less than 4% of the natural metal. The other is what to do with Big Oil … to minimize obstruction. ** ** BTW - the way Rossi’s patent is worded, only Ni-62 is protected. This points to the need for a National effort for optimized enrichment of the isotope, if it will really replace oil. ** ** For gas centrifuge enrichment, nickel is known to form one gaseous molecule, which is fluoride based, so that is no problem given the similarity to present mature processes for U-235. In fact, there is every likelihood that the same plants which enrich Uranium can be converted for nickel enrichment. ** ** If the access to the gas centrifuge process is going to be required for this kind of device to succeed– then this will be a major political issue in the end. This is problematic, since control of politics usually get back to wealth, and wealth gets back to Oil. ** ** The candidate who wishes to become the next in line after Obama would be wise to get on this bandwagon at an early stage. However, that candidate will probably have to stand up against Big Oil, early-on - since any expedited effort to get LENR into production will hurt that industry eventually but may depend on access to ultracentrifuge plants. ** ** May you live in interesting times… ** ** …that is going to be our collective curse, or opportunity …depending on a few political decisions soon to be on the horizon. ** ** Jones
Re: [Vo]:Proximate Significance of the E-Cat HT Paper
DGT's ICCF17 paper suggests that enrichment is not needed: We realized also that Ni58, Ni60, Ni62and Ni64 stable isotopes where “willing” to participate in a LENR reaction, whilst Ni61 was not. So there was no need for any costly enrichment method. Ni58 is 68% of the natural metal while Ni60 is 26% of the natural metal. On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: ** ** *From:* Alain Sepeda** The article makes the buzz worldwide, as if there was many lurkers entrenched and waiting for real news (would be rational). there is already people prepared to oil the revolution... ** ** Speaking of “oil” - when you think about the big picture and look for the potential bottlenecks which are foreseeable, based upon what is in the public record – one is becoming obvious: enriching nickel in the rare isotope nickel-62 which is less than 4% of the natural metal. The other is what to do with Big Oil … to minimize obstruction. ** ** BTW - the way Rossi’s patent is worded, only Ni-62 is protected. This points to the need for a National effort for optimized enrichment of the isotope, if it will really replace oil. ** ** For gas centrifuge enrichment, nickel is known to form one gaseous molecule, which is fluoride based, so that is no problem given the similarity to present mature processes for U-235. In fact, there is every likelihood that the same plants which enrich Uranium can be converted for nickel enrichment. ** ** If the access to the gas centrifuge process is going to be required for this kind of device to succeed– then this will be a major political issue in the end. This is problematic, since control of politics usually get back to wealth, and wealth gets back to Oil. ** ** The candidate who wishes to become the next in line after Obama would be wise to get on this bandwagon at an early stage. However, that candidate will probably have to stand up against Big Oil, early-on - since any expedited effort to get LENR into production will hurt that industry eventually but may depend on access to ultracentrifuge plants. ** ** May you live in interesting times… ** ** …that is going to be our collective curse, or opportunity …depending on a few political decisions soon to be on the horizon. ** ** Jones
RE: [Vo]:Proximate Significance of the E-Cat HT Paper
From: Franco Talari DGT's ICCF17 paper suggests that enrichment is not needed: We realized also that Ni58, Ni60, Ni62and Ni64 stable isotopes where willing to participate in a LENR reaction, whilst Ni61 was not. So there was no need for any costly enrichment method. But DGT has never shared any data - nor 3rd party verification - which indicates the kind of success Rossi has claimed. They have been most unconvincing, in fact - when one talks to visitors off the record. They look like a sinking ship. Randell Mills has indeed shown that un-enriched nickel will work, but apparently not well enough to be ready for market. Mills has delayed and delayed product announcements over the years; and the reason could well be that he does not realize that one isotope is responsible for the effect. It is likely that Rossi's one major advance, if we can believe this latest report - has been the identification of the active nickel isotope. Rossi has essentially bet the farm on this isotope. It is all or nothing for Rossi on Ni-62 - if he needs patent protection - and he will, of course. He will then be getting the last laugh on DGT. This statement does NOT imply that a reactor cannot work without nickel enrichment, but it suggests that a commercial, on-demand, robust device will require enrichment. Jones
RE: [Vo]:Proximate Significance of the E-Cat HT Paper
Rossi could have stumbled on a simple way like cryogenic distillation - who knows? More likely, he gets it from ENEA Frascati - using Focardi's connections. From: James Bowery Isotopes of Carbon, Oxygen, and Nitrogen can be purified by chilling these gases or compounds nearly to their liquification temperature in very tall columns (200 to 700 feet tall-70 to 200 meters). The heavier isotopes sink and the lighter isotopes rise, where they are easily collected. The process was developed in the late 1960s by scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotope_separation#cite_note-8 [8] This process is also called cryogenic distillation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotope_separation#cite_note-9 [9] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotope_separation#Gravity
Re: [Vo]:Proximate Significance of the E-Cat HT Paper
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: …that is going to be our collective curse, or opportunity …depending on a few political decisions soon to be on the horizon. Yes -- this is an interesting thought. Assume for the moment that Rossi comes through and we get commercial LENR in the next few years. I do not necessarily think it will go well for everyone. At minimum there would be a transition period where productivity in areas that can be incrementally automated skyrockets and workers are laid off in droves. With the general approach currently in place, there will be no training or support for them, and they will just be unemployed. Ditto for the high school and college students who did not know to focus on service sector work. Ditto for the masses of laborers in countries that now provide cheap labor in areas such as manufacturing. It could all be pretty messy for a while. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Proximate Significance of the E-Cat HT Paper
Reference: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/conferences/2012/ICCF17/ICCF-17-Hadjichristos-Technical-Characteristics-Paper.pdf Please explain how the DGT process produces twice as much nickel than their reactor originally contains given your conjecture about NI62. The test starts out with 9.983 PPM and end up with 19.435 PPM after their test. Some other elements beside nickel must be participating in the reaction. On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 8:38 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: ** ** *From:* Franco Talari ** ** DGT's ICCF17 paper suggests that enrichment is not needed: We realized also that Ni58, Ni60, Ni62and Ni64 stable isotopes where “willing” to participate in a LENR reaction, whilst Ni61 was not. So there was no need for any costly enrichment method. But DGT has never shared any data - nor 3rd party verification - which indicates the kind of success Rossi has claimed. They have been most unconvincing, in fact – when one talks to visitors “off the record”. They look like a sinking ship. ** ** Randell Mills has indeed shown that un-enriched nickel will work, but apparently not well enough to be ready for market. Mills has delayed and delayed product announcements over the years; and the reason could well be that he does not realize that one isotope is responsible for the effect.** ** ** ** It is likely that Rossi’s one major advance, if we can believe this latest report - has been the identification of the active nickel isotope. ** ** Rossi has essentially “bet the farm” on this isotope. It is all or nothing for Rossi on Ni-62 - if he needs patent protection – and he will, of course. He will then be getting the last laugh on DGT. ** ** This statement does NOT imply that a reactor cannot work without nickel enrichment, but it suggests that a commercial, on-demand, robust device will require enrichment. ** ** Jones
