Re: [WSG] XHTML 1.1 Presentation Module

2005-03-27 Thread Ben Bishop
Douglas, Personal attacks are not acceptable on this list and, in most cases, offenders will be unsubscribed. The list administrators reserve the right to unsubscribe any member from the list. Reasons include: Unfriendly, abusive, disrespectful or rude behaviour...

RE: [WSG] XHTML 1.1 Presentation Module

2005-03-25 Thread Trusz, Andrew
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:57 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] XHTML 1.1 Presentation Module Trusz, Andrew wrote: Here's how xhtml2.0 defines the text module

Re: [WSG] XHTML 1.1 Presentation Module

2005-03-25 Thread Douglas Clifton
Patrick, Perhaps you spend a little more time with syntax and a little less time spouting about perfect semantic markup. Personally, I could care less about sending XHTML 1.0 to IE as text/html. Or sending self-closing element tags either. It's a borked browser on so many fronts to begin with

Re: [WSG] XHTML 1.1 Presentation Module

2005-03-25 Thread Rob Mientjes
Pardon me for continuing this off-topicness, but this just caught my attention BIG TIME. On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 23:12:54 +, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah, thank you for the usual Chewbacca defense...when a discussion on standards doesn't go the way you like, just point the

RE: [WSG] XHTML 1.1 Presentation Module

2005-03-24 Thread Patrick Lauke
Vlad Alexander (XStandard) sub and sup are not presentational. I beg to differ...they are entirely visual. There is a valid need for superscript and subscript in markup. For example: E = mcsup2/sup Again, that's visual markup. It doesn't say M C squared, but M C and then a 2 that lives

Re: [WSG] XHTML 1.1 Presentation Module

2005-03-24 Thread Chris Kennon
Hi, I can gather from this exchange, although the elements have not been deprecated, they should not be included in clean semantic markup? Thanks C On Thursday, March 24, 2005, at 09:06 AM, Patrick Lauke wrote: Vlad Alexander (XStandard) sub and sup are not presentational. I beg to

Re: [WSG] XHTML 1.1 Presentation Module

2005-03-24 Thread XStandard
Hi Patrick, The following is take from: http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/xhtml2.html Before somebody smart in this list points out that this document is a working draft, let me say that (1) there are other sources that say the same thing - I don't have time to hunt for them right now and (2) I am

Re: [WSG] XHTML 1.1 Presentation Module

2005-03-24 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Vlad Alexander (XStandard) wrote: [quote:] Separators: in previous versions of HTML, the hr element was used to separate sections of a text from each other. In retrospect, the name hr (for horizontal rule) was badly chosen, because an hr was neither necessarily horizontal (in vertical text it was

RE: [WSG] XHTML 1.1 Presentation Module

2005-03-24 Thread Trusz, Andrew
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 1:06 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] XHTML 1.1 Presentation Module Examples: E = mcsup2/sup span xml:lang=frMsuplle/sup

Re: [WSG] XHTML 1.1 Presentation Module

2005-03-24 Thread Ben Curtis
I can gather from this exchange, although the elements have not been deprecated, they should not be included in clean semantic markup? One could argue that the replacement of i, b, sup, sub, tt, and hr with spans, classes, and the like are equally unclean semantically. What is the semantic

Re: [WSG] XHTML 1.1 Presentation Module

2005-03-24 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Trusz, Andrew wrote: Here's how xhtml2.0 defines the text module which includes [sup] [...] Note in particular the phrase in this case it is intended to only have a semantic meaning. That seems pretty clear. While that may or may not be the current definition of [sup], it certainly seems to be