Re: [WSG] valid video in (x)html?
My experience tells that Videos and anmimated things should be made in Flash as streaming is the melody to make this the best way. http://www.vivrecotesud.fr/ script type=text/javascript var so = new SWFObject(swf/visit.swf, objflash, 352, 242, 6, #3f); /script Ohh i didnt introduce myself... Im Michael and im a web designer since 1996, trying to learn the best way to do different things and I am very comfortable with handcoding my strict XHTML and CSS fom some years now. I also do SEO (search engine optimization) both for static, dynamic and Full Flash websites with great success... The best Michael Marghanita da Cruz wrote: Designer wrote: I have had a request from a client to include a video on a website. I know nothing about this, except for a simple embedding from youtube. Sadly, the page doesn't validate if I do that. You might also like to check out what is happening with Video in HTML5 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#video Has anyone any experience of producing a standard (accessible?) video into a web page? I've googled, but not found anything useful. I've done it with Flash by using Bert Stern's method: object data=sitegraphics/creditsv2.swf width=566 height=389 type=application/x-shockwave-flash param name=movie value=sitegraphics/creditsv2.swf / param name=quality value=high / param name=bgcolor value=#fff / a href=http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,29,0; img src=sitegraphics/credits.jpg alt=Credits graphic, for those without flash / /a /object But video seems to be more problematic? I'd be really grateful for any help here. Many thanks, Bob www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Michael Persson front-end developer seo *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] valid video in (x)html?
Dear Michael, Im not ure about the solution with no JavaScript but i consider that alistapart.com or 456bereastreet has clear some solutions. I read about some Satay solution but im not sure that was related to this question.. I believe flash need to be published with javascript as it is also creating a SEO solutions which is very important when one has a full flash webite for example... Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And if JavaScript is turned off? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Persson Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 7:37 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] valid video in (x)html? My experience tells that Videos and anmimated things should be made in Flash as streaming is the melody to make this the best way. http://www.vivrecotesud.fr/ script type=text/javascript var so = new SWFObject(swf/visit.swf, objflash, 352, 242, 6, #3f); /script Ohh i didnt introduce myself... Im Michael and im a web designer since 1996, trying to learn the best way to do different things and I am very comfortable with handcoding my strict XHTML and CSS fom some years now. I also do SEO (search engine optimization) both for static, dynamic and Full Flash websites with great success... The best Michael *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Full flash websites
The company I worl with has a big love for full flash websites and we have produced some very nice but heavy and slow ones. What do you people, professionals and hobby standardists think about full flash websites?? where is the usability and accessibility for flash in general?? I am personally and professionally against them as they cut of the usabiity, have bad accessibility and for me the navigation most often i very difficult and difficult to use. Michael Persson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Full flash websites
As i started this thred i will also close it and sum the results. I find that we, professionals on wen development are mostly negative to the full flash publishing and also have a attitide that standards are able to implement. What do we do when a client wants flash and dont really understand the neg or pos difficulties. Do we still want the money to produce their website or do we say no because we are web standard freaks and would never touch such a bad usability and accessibilty project dirty money hahaha.. Well would we...?? Content is king but i think also money is Queen or very closely related to the majesty also... Michael Felix Miata wrote: On 2008/05/05 23:15 (GMT+0300) Michael Persson apparently typed: What do you people, professionals and hobby standardists think about full flash websites?? OK for people whose priorities lie in form rather than substance, but generally no small impediment for many others. Flash players do not exist for every GUI web browsing environment, and AFAIK, they exist for no text-only browsing environment. The exclusivity means lockout, both to real users, and search bots. where is the usability and accessibility for flash in general?? As a practical matter, non-existent. As long as Flash content ignores browser default text size (same as CSS px font sizing) and text zoom (worse than CSS px font sizing), it locks out the many people who can't read its virtually universal mousetype or make sense of its itty bitty images. Flash is functionally a synonym for content-free for an arbitrarily large number of people, sighted users with low vision (or even average vision) and/or using high resolution displays. -- Michael Persson front-end developer seo *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Full flash websites
Yeah, I think we all are aware of these small problems and i have faced them also producing standard websites for a french company that had IE5.5 a a standard browser... haha We cant expect other non professionals to have the same settings, latest installations and technical experience as us. I resinstalled my work computer some months ago and I had a technical person to do this because we have a deal, Yes he installed all programs i needed and also IE7 ONLY!!!. Stupid me didnt made him understand i need IE6 to make websites for the most of the internet audience... I have now a cracked tripped IE6 that cant have flash installed and i am in need of another new installation again... just need to find the time... Web standards is not always standards for the audience and its dangerous to even think so... Mobile phones. hmmm it is exploding but wh is really making websites for these devices and arent we only technical freaks using them for internet... they are terrible to read and use for services... gmail is ok though, fast and looks ok.. I went out of the limits this morning but i think we have many things to learn about the users of our products online and from there is where we need to build our products... that shold be standards considered... Michael Persson Michael MD wrote: also - don't assume everyone's browser has flash player. eg: mobile phones - some of the more recent models *might* have a mobile flash player ... which btw might handle flash 6 content! - ok maybe an iPhone can do better .. but honestly how many of those do you see about? ... phone models more than about two years old? ... forget it! Not to mention some corporate environments that are locked down. Ours has an older version of Flash as our standard, and there are a number of sites that won't display and we are invited to download the newer version - ha! Kerry --- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Older Browsers
Dear Chris, The only way is to develop the website for the most use browsers, IE6, and also respect the new softwares like FF and Safari browsers. IE5 dont support a lot of CSS at all and its not wort trying to fic the problem. You are not god but tell the client to get a deascent browser in order to view internet in a better way Michael chris | chrisbuttery.com wrote: Hi All, I'm relatively new to this group this is my first post. So here goes. I just had an issue where i developed a prototype site for a client that worked perfectly across several browsers (IE7, Firefox, Opera, Safari Netscape). The client sent me a screen shot of the site taken from their browser ( IE5...which i don't have ) that basically displayed a mangled site. I was able to fix the site through a series of screen shots supplied from the client, but it's obviously not a professional way of doing things. My question to you guys is how do you develop test your websites to ensure they are interpreted correctly by older more popular browsers ? Do you have older browsers handy to test them with? Thanks Chris *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Michael Persson front-end developer seo *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Embed a flash file 100%
Hi Laert, have a look at www.staff-jeans.com where I have a full flash site wit ha full flash independent on the screen size... Michael Hello everyone. well, I´d like to know what´s the right way to embed a flash file into the html without tables. The flash file is 100% width and height. Thanks a lot Laert -- Laert Jansen www.laertjansen.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: R: [WSG] is display:none inheritance
Trying to HACK your CSS for different browser can be a disaster for future browser versions so its is suggested to never hack the CSS and follow the standards. It will also make life easier for a front end developer... tee wrote: On May 11, 2008, at 5:15 PM, Darren Lovelock wrote: See here for more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~peterned/csshover.html Curious, what kind of trick to feed different style sheet for different browser - Not saying IE. http://wwwl.lotusseedsdesign.com/xs4all.png The one shows up in Safari, is totally unreadable, for a second I thought the Safari messes up the style sheet. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Michael Persson front-end developer seo *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Older Browsers
Dear Scott, I think helping your client to install a proper web browser would also eliminate other website problems also. IE5 have terrible CSS support and you will need to make table design again to make a website look ok in IE5... dont even go there.!!! using a IE5 is really ancient nad was maybe standard 1999, its really bad to see these clients but we should educate them and teach them the difference in order to keep updating these softwares... Michael Scott Elcomb wrote: On 5/8/08, chris | chrisbuttery.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I'm relatively new to this group this is my first post. So here goes. Same here. (Hi all!) The client sent me a screen shot of the site taken from their browser ( IE5...which i don't have ) that basically displayed a mangled site. I was able to fix the site through a series of screen shots supplied from the client, but it's obviously not a professional way of doing things. I agree with the other posters... I wouldn't support IE 5.x if it could be helped. My question to you guys is how do you develop test your websites to ensure they are interpreted correctly by older more popular browsers ? Do you have older browsers handy to test them with? I haven't actually tried this, but came across it as a sponsored link in my gmail. A quick look around the site and I find myself somewhat impressed. I'm intending to try this out over the next couple of weeks. http://www.crossbrowsertesting.com/ Essentially, it's a VNC-like setup to Virtual Machines running various OS's and Browsers. Some of the VM's described do have IE 5 installed. Some caveats: - IIRC, your site will need to be available online - I can't vouch for their security policies. - If you don't want to pay for time slots, you're limited to 5 minute sessions. Depending on server load, you can jump right back in after a session expires. Best of luck! -- Michael Persson front-end developer seo *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Embed a flash file 100%
Hi Laert,
I suggest you make it higher in order to fit 1024 768 screen in order to
eliminate the gap... im not a flash expert but I have published many sites
that are full size...
im using this, might make a difference
html, body {
height: 100%;
font-family:verdana;
}
michael
:) thanks
On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 2:09 PM, James Jeffery
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I had a quick peek but im having problems with this browser at college
so
i can't help until i get home
Nice site btw.
On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Laert Jansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Hey, thanks a lot. Here´s what I´m working on
http://www.laertjansen.com/zecafreitas/
Would you mind to take a look? :) I have a problem. The flash is the
black portion only and it should be at the top...I mean, there should
not
exist that white area.any ideia of what am I doing wrong?
thanks a lot
On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 4:11 PM, James Jeffery
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
SWFObject is currently the best way to go about embedding flash.
On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Michael Persson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Hi Laert,
have a look at www.staff-jeans.com where I have a full flash site
wit ha
full flash independent on the screen size...
Michael
Hello everyone.
well, I´d like to know what´s the right way to embed a flash
file
into the
html without tables. The flash file is 100% width and height.
Thanks a lot
Laert
--
Laert Jansen
www.laertjansen.com
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Re: [WSG] Accessibility for HTML Email
Accessible or to keep them not readble from the search engines and SPAM?? Michael Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote: What is the most accessible method to have email links on web pages? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Michael Persson front-end developer seo *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Guestbook
Dear Bob, I suggest you try to find a CMS guestbook that is also editable and accessible with a PHP interface to manager non wanted articles and writing. It is very useful for a client or yourself to manage it with a simple login... Michael Designer wrote: Hi All, I've had a request to put a guestbook on a client's site. I've searched amomgst the maze of google refs, but there seems to be a lot of micky mouse things. I am after an accessible, (x)html valid (of course!) example. I feel sure that someone on the list will have done this, or at least know where to point me? Any help gratefully appreciated. Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Michael Persson front-end developer seo *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: [canberra_ia_community] Is RTF accessible?
I was thinking that XML files must be accessible but also stuctured for the purpose to deliver txt information. Michael Andrew Boyd wrote: Same holds for three other Australian government organisations that I've worked in/around. It is necessary to separate this discussion from how do I make PDF accessible? Cheers, Andrew On 5/27/08, Rae Buerckner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jessica, The 2 formats most commonly provided formats by Government departments is PDF RTF format. Cheers, Rae On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Jessica Enders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello I am trying to work out whether a Rich Text File is considered accessible, to the extent that Australian federal government agencies must provide electronic documents in an accessible format. RTF is owned by Microsoft, but most word processors can read it. Apparently if styles are used correctly, RTF files can be used well by screen readers. Also, section 2.3 of the World Wide Web Access: Disability Discrimination Act Advisory Notes (from 2002, mind you) on the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission website (http:// hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/standards/www_3/www_3.html) suggests that RTF is considered acceptable. Any views? Jessica Enders Director Formulate Information Design http://formulate.com.au Phone: (02) 6116 8765 Fax: (02) 8456 5916 PO Box 5108 Braddon ACT 2612 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute
As i remember alt was short for alternative text, to describe images in a website. It is als yuseful for Search ENgine Optimization as its visible for them to also relate them to content, titles and other components of the page. Michael kate wrote: The alt tag which is'nt really the right discription is really called the attribute tag. Kate - Original Message - From: Andrew Freedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute Tom Livingston provided the following information on 28/05/2008 3:26 AM: Can anyone give me a clear example/explanation of the difference between the alt attribute and the title attribute? How about a real 'attributes for dummies' reference?? The difference seems very slight to me... Hi Tom, I may be wrong here but I've always worked on the premise that alt is alternative text for when the image isn't available (For whatever reason) and the title is the title of the image. An example would be alt=Customer Care Logo title=We Care about you However as I am always learning I may learn something here today. Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1468 - Release Date: 5/26/2008 3:23 PM *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Michael Persson front-end developer seo *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Table Cells and display: block
I think you need to use a class that breaks the spaces...
table#cleanTable {
border-collapse:collapse;
}
Michael
Matijs wrote:
Do you have a little more context maybe? What is it you're trying to
do? Sounds a bit odd to display a table cell as a block tbh.
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Anthony Green [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've tried Google and the archives but no luck
I have an issue with IE not applying display:block to table
elements: tr,
td, tr etc
Anyone see this before and know a work around ?
Tony
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Re: [WSG] Structuring CSS
James, It depends on the site size and the structure. If you have a huge CSS file for navigation it is of course good to separate it from other styles. I always make form.css for contact pages and form pages, but in general i keep style.css for the rest ad my sites are not so huge, something up to 100 pages.. Michael James Jeffery wrote: There really needs to be a consistent method of sturucturing CSS personally. If i cram everything onto one file I feel like the structure of the website is not really effective and editing becomes a task. Most the time I will break up the CSS file into a few sections as standard and use Yahoo!'s reset stylesheet to reset elements. I am not a fan of framworks and like to invent my own naming conventions. CSS Structure - - Reset.css (Yahoo!) - Layout.css (positioning, margins, padding etc.) - Style.css (colours, borders, backgrounds etc.) - Typography (fonts) - Base.css (used to @import everything) I would like to break it up further but I do respect users on slower Internet connections. In all the CSS files you are usually repeating selectors which is generating uneeded code, but on the other hand I have found it useful and easier to edit. It's really good for bug hunting because when you need to find a bug thats messing up the layout, you can focus on a single file (most the time) and narrow down the scope until the bug is eliminated. I like the idea of a server-side stylesheet joiner. I am going to look into that. Keep the replies coming. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] transparency, png IE6 ??
HI people, I have tried to not use transparency for years as it is not working IE6 properly. I have not a situation where i need it and there is no way out, I have tried some tricks and there are some that works half way to the full solution. There is a solution with a js file called htc somethnig where i get the transparency working but only in one of the images i need them to appear. Does anyone have a clever full functional solution for this transparency crap to make work ? I have grey hair already but its starting to fall of soon... Michael in Athens *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] transparency, png IE6?? Screen Resolution
I need a function of a link that one KNOWS is working... Michael IceKat wrote: Hey, I recently looked this up for someone else. I've found this link (below) to work well for regular images but don't seem to do much for background images pulled in with CSS. However having said that I've used this script without much trouble for quite a while. As for the 800x600 thread. I've been interested in reading the replies and thank everyone responding to my thread. I asked because I was making a fixed width layout which was looking very odd on my computer when made to fix for an 800x600 and my screen being a wide screen. Some of you might be glad to know I've since started trying to make it fluid width but it's been great to read all the replies and get the opinion of everyone. IceKat. PNG Link: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bobosola/pnghowto.htm Michael Persson wrote: HI people, I have tried to not use transparency for years as it is not working IE6 properly. I have not a situation where i need it and there is no way out, I have tried some tricks and there are some that works half way to the full solution. There is a solution with a js file called htc somethnig where i get the transparency working but only in one of the images i need them to appear. Does anyone have a clever full functional solution for this transparency crap to make work ? I have grey hair already but its starting to fall of soon... Michael in Athens *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?
The best way is a form that also has a secure SPAM code or just make a image that search engines cannot read... I believe that people that does not have Javascript working are not using internet for the purpose i produce websites for, and im sorry we cant accept all kind of users. Also users has to follow the standard where website production also is based in the clients need and NOT on web standards. Standard freaks are trying to make things better for web standards and not for the clients or visitors in general... There is a war and it will always be there until understanding from all parts are met. Michael James Leslie wrote: Why is this the best way? It means that anyone without JavaScript enabled cannot contact you. Spam is a pain, but not giving a user the basic opportunity of contacting you is a bigger problem IMO. I think mailto's and spam filters are the best way to go, as they are accessible for everyone. J *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Fuji kusaka *Sent:* 13 June 2008 05:23 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)? Hi The best way is to encrypt the email address and make use of a js. This will avoid loads of problems specially spamming. This is simple just follow the instructions here http://jumk.de/nospam/stopspam.html Fuji On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 6:22 AM, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is one of the thing I can't decide. At time, it seemed nothing wrong to have an email link (js encrypted, not mailto that shows email address nakely to Mr. Spam King), but as many people are actually using webmail, or sometimes access websites via public computer (internet cafe or library for instance), I find that having email link actually is causing usability for users. When client insists on having direct email link. What do you do so that it won't cause problem for above users? Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Fuji kusaka *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?
Thanks Chris, These options are like the options of what size your website should have, and depending on the target group your client have no idea for these technical matters as well as web standards. I am working to make internet a more accessible place to use from any device but im also a realist and i see that clients dont care to pay for my experience or expertise and have not any interest in paying for something they do not understand or have no idea how to use. Are you willing to work 3 days extra for each project to implement the usability / accessibility regulations in order to follow the web standard in order to create a better website that the client will not pay for or even understand what they are paying for...?? Then Chris you are my god of web development really impressive!! Michael Chris Taylor wrote: Michael, What if JavaScript isn't enabled or available on my smartphone? I presume your websites are not for people accessing the web while on the move, as well as people whose preference or requirement is to use a web client without JavaScript. These standard[s] freaks you seem to think so little of *are* trying to make the web a better place for users - by levelling the playing field, making things fairer and ensuring we all stick to the same high standards. You can choose not to do that which is fine by me - my websites will gladly accept the visitors (and customers) who can't use yours. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Persson Sent: 16 June 2008 10:53 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)? The best way is a form that also has a secure SPAM code or just make a image that search engines cannot read... I believe that people that does not have Javascript working are not using internet for the purpose i produce websites for, and im sorry we cant accept all kind of users. Also users has to follow the standard where website production also is based in the clients need and NOT on web standards. Standard freaks are trying to make things better for web standards and not for the clients or visitors in general... There is a war and it will always be there until understanding from all parts are met. Michael James Leslie wrote: Why is this the best way? It means that anyone without JavaScript enabled cannot contact you. Spam is a pain, but not giving a user the basic opportunity of contacting you is a bigger problem IMO. I think mailto's and spam filters are the best way to go, as they are accessible for everyone. J *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Fuji kusaka *Sent:* 13 June 2008 05:23 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)? Hi The best way is to encrypt the email address and make use of a js. This will avoid loads of problems specially spamming. This is simple just follow the instructions here http://jumk.de/nospam/stopspam.html Fuji On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 6:22 AM, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is one of the thing I can't decide. At time, it seemed nothing wrong to have an email link (js encrypted, not mailto that shows email address nakely to Mr. Spam King), but as many people are actually using webmail, or sometimes access websites via public computer (internet cafe or library for instance), I find that having email link actually is causing usability for users. When client insists on having direct email link. What do you do so that it won't cause problem for above users? Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Fuji kusaka *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?
Dear Joe, I know very well what web standards are but i have a point of view from the clients side, do the clients know what web standards are and do they really care to pay for something they dont want to pay for!!! Now we have another view of the situation... Im not located in a higly technical enviroment, Greece and there might be a huge difference tio standards or even selling a website Michael Joseph Ortenzi wrote: Michael You have made some mistaken assumptions. Search engines are not spam email farmers, so there is no need to PREVENT them from accessing your contacts page. You WANT them to see the contacts page. That is a good thing. Standards compliance policies ARE for the users, and CLIENTS need to understand and respect the users' needs, which is the ability to use any site with their browser of choice. If you design sites solely for your clients needs and not the site visitor needs then you are assuming that users don't matter and the client knows what they need from a site. I would have thought that one thing a client needs from a site is for the visitors to find what they are looking for, without hassle, and to enjoy the time they spend there, i.e.: use the site without problems or difficulties. If you knew ANYTHING about web standards you would see that compliance with standards IS in the client's interest, helps satisfy the client's business needs from the site and standards freaks ARE making things better for BOUTH the clients and visitors. And finally, it is not a war, it is a discussion and a debate and a campaign, but not a war. I remember a few months ago someone posted a great S5 slideshow from sometime in 2004 describing why standards matter for everyone. Can you please re-post it here to help Michael understand standards a bit better? Joe On Jun 16, 2008, at 10:53, Michael Persson wrote: The best way is a form that also has a secure SPAM code or just make a image that search engines cannot read... I believe that people that does not have Javascript working are not using internet for the purpose i produce websites for, and im sorry we cant accept all kind of users. Also users has to follow the standard where website production also is based in the clients need and NOT on web standards. Standard freaks are trying to make things better for web standards and not for the clients or visitors in general... There is a war and it will always be there until understanding from all parts are met. Michael James Leslie wrote: Why is this the best way? It means that anyone without JavaScript enabled cannot contact you. Spam is a pain, but not giving a user the basic opportunity of contacting you is a bigger problem IMO. I think mailto's and spam filters are the best way to go, as they are accessible for everyone. J *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Fuji kusaka *Sent:* 13 June 2008 05:23 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)? Hi The best way is to encrypt the email address and make use of a js. This will avoid loads of problems specially spamming. This is simple just follow the instructions here http://jumk.de/nospam/stopspam.html Fuji On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 6:22 AM, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is one of the thing I can't decide. At time, it seemed nothing wrong to have an email link (js encrypted, not mailto that shows email address nakely to Mr. Spam King), but as many people are actually using webmail, or sometimes access websites via public computer (internet cafe or library for instance), I find that having email link actually is causing usability for users. When client insists on having direct email link. What do you do so that it won't cause problem for above users? Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Fuji kusaka *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List
Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?
Dear Chris, I could not said it better myself. I am alone front end developer and technical responsible for the projects we are creating in the company i work. I have tried to implement web standards, accessibility and usability for the last 2 years but sometimes I am just chopped by the shoulders because noone else have any idea of what I am talking about... Michael Chris Taylor wrote: Michael said: Are you willing to work 3 days extra for each project to implement the usability / accessibility regulations in order to follow the web standard in order to create a better website that the client will not pay for or even understand what they are paying for...?? I try to quote clients for the amount of time it will take me to do a website the right way. Following the standards and implementing solutions which fit in with the regulations (in the UK I believe there are laws covering accessible websites) is always the right way. Setting your pricing to cover this would be a good move. I'm a realist as well, but I believe that you should only do things the non-standard, inaccessible, non-degradable, easy way when there's a very strong business reason to do it. Off the top of my head the only valid reason I can think of for ignoring the standards and accessibility would be when you're writing a private intranet with known client software and users. Chris This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] transparency, png IE6 ??
I have tried this option and it works on ONE image only, having more
than one PNG
does not give transparency, so its not a good solution either...
I will just go back to gifs and make a background of the image behind to
cut the out line
with expand 1px, that always work and save struggling time with
incompetent web browsers..
When will we ever have some standards and make websites for todays users!!!
Thanks all anyways
Michael
Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd wrote:
Even that site resource advise's to use the htc approach. I use this on a
number of website and it works really well. I attach it to a style sheet for
IE6 or below that way my CSS still passes validation.
http://bjorkoy.com/past/2007/4/8/the_easiest_way_to_png/
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jens-Uwe Korff
Sent: 17 June 2008 00:50
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] transparency, png IE6 ??
Does anyone have a clever full functional solution for this
transparency crap to make work ?
I know it's a rather old thread but I just came across a nice solution
which does not even need an iepngfix.htc Javascript.
One template I work on required a semitransparent background. I have it
working nicely cross-browser (FF, IE6, IE7) with the following:
CSS:
.className {background:transparent url('img/707070_90pc.png') repeat 0
0} /* The 'pc' indicates the opacity, 90% here */
* html .className
{background:none;filter:progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.AlphaImageLoad
er(enabled=true, sizingMethod=scale,
src='css/skin-travel/img/707070_90pc.png')}
The first line if for standards-compliant browsers, the second one for
IE6 only.
Image:
You'll also need the PNG image. Here's the magic: Usually a PNG image
used with the proprietary filter overlays any links and renders them
unclickable. But I found a website [1] which offers a fix: You have to
use a certain image size, then IE6 allows clickable links.
So I made the PNG just 10x2 pixels (wXh).
That's it. The site's not live yet, so I cannot offer a link.
Cheers,
Jens
[1] http://www.daltonlp.com/view/217
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Re: [WSG] Multi level navigation!
I woulkd try to nmake it in DL DT DD and easier make levels. Ir not use the inside UL but add a class to the li style=margin-left:1em;a href=#Step 1: Front Cover/a/li That would validated the menu even strict james wrote: Hi, Just wondering if any one can help me, i am trying to make a multi level CSS list on my website for navigation, it looks fine and works fine in all browsers, however it is now valid XHTML. The navigation can be seen here; http://jungle-systems.com/~mip/fmn/ I have tried adding a new class for the inner navigation, that makes it valid, however it displays with a gap at the top of the inner navigation on IE. Can anyone guide me in the right direction? Cheers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Marking Up Poems
Poetry is art and its really ugly to even try to mark it correctly. There must be something that would work though and i have actually tried with a really bad result.. http://kevinmcgeary.com/essay.html With inherit and ems mixed with p there must be a way also where beginning letter would be replaced with a sIFR font to be pretty and make it really pretty... I didnt have the energy because it so rare and really destroying the words meaning i guess... Michael James Jeffery wrote: A question was raised at work today 'How do you mark up a poem'. I looked into it but found nothing worthy. My original thought was to use P's and class names, but one article I read said XML is perfect for this case. Whats your views on this, anyone actually did it before? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
