I am working on a very bad implementation of a site. My job is to
improve it for the timebeing, while we are developing a new standard
site. Now the issue is with the payment system with the Paypal. I need
to put in shipping cost for the products bought from here..
Hi Lorrie,
List,
I am a web designer as a hobby and have run into a situation where I
am not sure where to search. Does a standard exist for the creation
of web site creation documentation? By this I mean documentation
that would/might be turned over to the end user:
1. to allow the
I'm wondering if anyone has tried/tested the following potentially
useful extensions and if so what their opinion was/is:
Two recently released text-to-speech extensions can transform
Firefox into a talking Web browser suitable for users with visual
impairments -- and anyone else who can
Hello All,
I'm working on a Likert scale questionnaire (Strongly Agree/Agree/
Undecided/Disagree/Strongly Disagree) with 20 questions and some
Googling came up with the following approach...
http://www.enterpriseaccessibility.com/articles/
AccessibleRadioButtons.html
...and I was
Hi Patrick,
Actually I had already prepared one as an alternative version to
discuss with the client so glad you brought it up independently.
Nick
On 04/12/2007, at 5:10 AM, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
Steve Green wrote:
I recommend using label elements for each radio button and
hiding them
PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Lo
Sent: 03 December 2007 12:34
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Accessible likert scale (disagree/agree/strongly
agree/etc)
forms
Hello All,
I'm working on a Likert scale questionnaire (Strongly Agree/Agree/
Undecided/Disagree/Strongly Disagree) with 20
On 04/12/2007, at 12:07 AM, russ - maxdesign wrote:
Hi Nick,
The sample code on this page you link to does not look ideal. As
has been
mentioned on this list a few times, title attributes are often
ignored by
screen readers. And the use of a table element to lay out the form
is a
The problem with the code below is that the content of the legend
will be
read before every label. That makes it very difficult for a
screen reader
user to read it fast. I would just have the question in a p or
possibly
even a header element.
Once the user has read through a few questions
From: Breton Slivka [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Of course if you don't feel like reading it, then don't. You have the
reccomendations here for the books that have good information (Unless
nobody has yet reccomended David Flanagan's Javascript: The
Definative Guide). When you're ready for good information,
Hi Graham,
Producing a .doc may seem incongruous, but it is just one of around 150
documents covering all Telstra's online standards including wap,
platform,
styleguides information architecture etc.
Yes, apologies for even alluding to that kind of hackneyed response.
You now have me
I first wanted to say thanks to Derek and Graham for providing all this
really great info.
Not that I'm fussed and purely playing devil's advocate but I cannot
help but see some kind of irony in having an accessibility guideline
document in .doc format. It's like the righteous word scribed on
I agree with Andreas to the degree that he is really saying this is not
THE Top Ten Web Design Mistakes of 2005 but rather Top Ten Web
Design Mistakes of 2005 according to subscribers of a newsletter
directed at people interested in Jakob Nielsen's views on usability.
In that respect it's a
Name, Description, Date.
You could then scan down a column, e.g. for a date, much more rapidly
and it would encourage a description for each column.
Nick
On 4 Oct 2005, at 11:30 PM, Nick Lo wrote:
I always find it amazing that useit.com has such standing when it is
itself such an awkward
Hi Terrence,
My post was not a personal attack on Nick, nor was it dismissive of his
POV. Admittedly, I got the impression he was struggling to come up
with an
example of how alertbox is difficult to use and perhaps that has
tainted
my message, but I was genuinely interested in whether he
Slashdot HTML 4.01 and CSS
After 8 years of my nasty, crufty, hodge podged together HTML, last
night we finally switched over to clean HTML 4.01 with a full
complement of CSS. While there are a handful of bugs and some lesser
used functionality isn't quite done yet, the transition has gone
Hello all,
Just wondering if anyone has had much success styling legend.
I was picturing being able to do a rounded box in the style of A List
Apart's mountaintop corners...
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/mountaintop/
...using the legend for the background top curves and the fieldset for
Partner sources say Microsoft is wavering on the extent to which it
plans to support CSS2 with IE 7.0. Developers have been clamoring for
Microsoft to update its CSS support to support the latest W3C standards
for years. But Microsoft is leaning toward adding some additional CSS2
support to IE
Just out of interest what standards (in the sense of a generalised
approach) are you all applying to site structuring?
There is a well known article (that I cannot remember the URL for) that
discusses the fairly accepted standards for a site like; Home, Contact
Us, About Us, News, etc. So I
Ha ha, ok, welcome to the battle of the dictionaries. Yes I know it's
not a formal standard as defined by any authority but it is a standard
as established by it's common and accepted use.
Anyway my question was what are people's thoughts about this. For
example; I've heard developers complain
Well good question actually. I was initially just thinking of naming
conventions (Title: About Us, file: about_us.html, etc) but that could
well be extended. Common interface elements gets pretty in depth and
likely well off on a tangent though.
On the list we all spend a lot of time on what
Hi Rosemary,
Ok, to answer your actual question not the one I thought you asked ...
Actually I wasn't really asking a question as such, more opening up the
discussion of what people thought, how they work, etc. So your first
response was as correct as the second one.
You basically said you do
Hi Rick,
To kick off with an example would anyone say to a client We should
probably call this Contact Us as everyone expects and homes in on
that wording when they need make contact
I think that becomes absurd really quick, and ultimately leads to
software
creating websites with no human
I think Scott touches on a good point here that GMail is really a web
application and many of Google's current projects are really pushing
into quite new areas, Google Maps in particular.
I think the previous analogy from Andreas; why do we still bother with
these useless ramps infront of
Hi Gunlaug,
That was pretty well it. Note in your example the width is applied to
the ul#subscribe li a which when taken literally was pretty silly and
IE 5 took it literally; widening just the link in the ul to 285px.
All I needed to do was move that width setting to the ul and the column
is
I've just released...
http://www.mccn.org.au/
...and realised a little late that some last minute tweaks (possibly)
have thrown out the Stay Informed column on the home page in PC IE 5.
Usually I'd battle on and crack it but I'm a little battle weary and
this seems to work fine in IE 6 PC, IE 5
Hi Bert,
Being a minimalist, all those images for bullets do seem a little
archaic.
You should be able to achieve the same with css (non repeating
background
image and padding on the li/dd for instance). If nothing else, it
cuts down
on code and makes it easier to change the look of these
This seems a silly question but it bounces about enough that whilst
discussing it with a client I thought I'd put it to the list.
During development when referring to HTML (and perhaps CSS) with a
client do you use the term code or the more pedantically correct,
though perhaps less recognised,
Well having moved into this from print markup is really more document
related. A word document is marked up when you specify margins,
headers, bold, etc., it is not coded (excluding the really pedantic
fact that these days there is application code doing the work).
Nick
I tend to use 'code',
I'm curious if and how you are all using the address tag. The HTML 4
spec has this to say:
--
The ADDRESS element may be used by authors to supply contact
information for a document or a major part of a document such as a
form. This element often
Hi Patrick,
On experimenting with it it also appears that address is an inline
element so fails to validate if you put e.g. a dl inside it.
From the XHTML 1.0 Transistional DTD:
!-- information on author --
!ELEMENT address (#PCDATA | %inline; | %misc.inline; | p)*
!ATTLIST address
%attrs;
What you are really getting at is not so much that you charge more
because you know about building accessible standards based websites but
because your experience is broader. For example you can say ...and
because the site is built this way it has such and such benefits to
vision impaired
Hi Priscilla,
I develop in PHP (though the actual language is fairly irrelevant) and
based on what you say it sounds like a fingers crossed approach to the
problem. Not knowing the perspective of your developer I cannot say
whether he is wrong or right, but I can say with absolute certainty
To further that in a speech reader article passed on By Steven Faulkner
([WSG] Observing Users Who Work With Screen Readers ):
http://www.redish.net/content/papers/InteractionsPaperAuthorsVer.pdf
It says:
6. Many want to skip the navigation but do not do so.
Many Web sites include a Skip
I asked much the same question a little while back and what I got
together was:
First have the doc saved as HTML (Filtered) if it's coming from Word
2003 (earlier versions can get the filtered thingy someone else
mentioned).
Then in my case I wrote a filter for the content management system I
I think Felix has put in a lot of time and effort with his work at...
http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/wauth1.html
...and I found a lot of his demonstrations useful. So before I start I
just wanted to thank him for his efforts before using his work as an
example of perhaps part of why the
Hi Felix,
Nothing fundamentally wrong with your arguments but to balance them a
little I had a client just recently ask for text to be made smaller (it
wasn't in any way large) and they often ask for spacing to be reduced
in order to get more content above the fold. I think pointing the
blame
I'm having a little brain drain with spacing that I'd like help with.
The layout on a page I'm working in is experiencing the same problem I
can demonstrate better on Russ's example here:
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/steps/step22.htm
Imagine I want a background colour on the header
By the way it can be solved by adding padding to it's container:
div#content { margin-left: 190px; margin-right: 200px; padding-top:
3pt; }
However I'm still not clear why.
Thanks,
Nick
I'm having a little brain drain with spacing that I'd like help with.
The layout on a page I'm working in is
Smells like Flash but isn't:
http://www.scottschiller.com/
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I'm a Mac/Linux-on-occasion/PC-only-when-I-have-to user so I could be
wrong but:
!-- SCOTTSCHILLER V4.04: Now with more funk. --
!-- --
!-- This code may contain questionable ECMA- --
!-- script practices. Particularly in terms --
!-- of object-oriented,
I've partly incorporated Dublin Core into an NGO site I'm working on so
I'm very interested to hear how you go with this Ted. I'd say even
though this is not the right place for an SEO discussion, if the
discussion is in regards to being penalised for implementing what is
the main metadata
Correction:
Before:
The Australian Government has incorporated Dublin Core into it's AGLS
Metadata Standard...
http://www.naa.gov.au/recordkeeping/gov_online/agls/summary.html
...and I'd be surprised if there is no-one on this list that has had
no dealings there. If there are perhaps they'd
I had the same question with the same use in mind: web applications.
What you're presumably driving at is that pages look to need be either
XHTML 1.0 Transitional or Frameset in order to allow the target
attribute. The question that follows from that, albeit somewhat
academic at this stage, is
Hello,
This example below...
p
label class=blank for=input_phone_1
select name=input_phone_1_type id=input_phone_1_type
option value=Please Select/option
option value=work selected=selectedwork/option
option value=homehome/option
option
name=input_phone_1 id=input_phone_1 value=
/p
As I've just put at...
http://www.trikeinteractive.com/form_example.html
...as an example. Note there is no actual text as would normally be
within the label tags but instead another form element.
Thanks,
Nick
Nick Lo wrote:
So my question is really
Thanks Nick,
Well, no... but it needs to be used correctly. The label element
allows the text label for a form input to become 'live' (ie clickable)
to enlarge the target for, say, a radio button - but it needs to wrap
around the element it refers to. You have the label for
id=input_phone_1
Wow, so many responses... must type fast...just knocked up what must be
a better solution:
http://www.trikeinteractive.com/form_example.html
However notice how the first is actually less laborious visually in
terms of how we use desktop applications.
I'm thinking of for example OS X Address
Steven Faulkner just made me realise I've not yet seen or asked about
set-ups for actually testing sites using speech/text readers.
There are plenty of articles on browser testing but how would you go
about setting up an environment for testing via speech/text readers.
I use a Mac for
Hi Steven,
Yes that's a solution I'd considered and on thinking about it/reading
that article I realised yet another point:
I use the label class to indicate required elements. So if this part of
the form was submitted but not filled in:
label class=blank for=input_phone_2_typePhone Type/label
Hello again,
Wow, I have to say I expected a short list but not as few as that. I
know of course about JAWS but the pricing is quite prohibitive. It
really is an area crying out for some open source input as in:
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gap/AT/Gnopernicus/
Sad, as although there are
Hi Lea,
have you looked a the fieldset tag?
Its useful for grouping fields together.
Yes, in fact that example is an excerpt from a larger form that is
enclosed in a fieldset with a legend. Though what my example
highlighted was the finer points of accessibility I wasn't capturing.
Thanks,
Nick
Hi Andrew,
Thanks for posting the article in the first place, I should've known
the writer would've been on this list!
Anyway, I like the idea and I have a suspicion it'll work pretty well
for my needs. I just tried it in a site I'm working on and it actually
didn't break much and in fact I
I was just reading the article excerpted below and was curious as to
how many on the list have used this technique of initially setting all
padding and margins to 0 and if so how successful was it?
A big part of dealing with cross-browser
Thanks for the reply Russ, I agree that it's really down to the
situation.
Some further thoughts from your points:
Smaller sites would presumably have less people working on them and
therefore the issue of confusion is possibly less relevant, though the
problem of verbosity may be. On the
A while ago I brought up the topic of the Turing/CAPTCHA test on forms
and whether it restricted accessibility on forms. The general opinion
was of course that it does.
I just found this article:
My article about Turing Protection generated lots of comments about
how using image CAPTCHAs
been seen jumping over the moon say
residents.../p
/li
li
h2a href=dish_spoon.html ... Dish runs away with spoon/a/h2
pThe mystery continues as crockery takes to the streets.../p
/li
/ul
And also quite a bit more elegant, IMO.
Cheers,
Cam
Nick Lo wrote:
Pondering over this one:
I'm presuming
Pondering over this one:
I'm presuming a list of links with their short intros like e.g. news
articles:
dl
dta href=cow_jumps_over_moon.html ... Cow jumps over
moon/a/dt
ddAn unnamed cow has been seen jumping over the moon say
residents.../dd
dta href=dish_spoon.html ... Dish runs
http://9rules.com/whitespace/css_redesigns/yahoo_css_redesign.php
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To be held in
I agree it appears that way now but I think it's a little too
easy/early to suggest it is and will end up that way. In that respect
it'll be interesting to watch it develop.
On a site of this massive scale I'd be very surprised if there are not
a bunch of pretty screwed on heads knocking
Hi Francesco,
It has some issues in earlier versions of IE PC You might want to check
out (Just got my multiple versions of IE installed (
http://www.skyzyx.com/archives/94.php ) so it's nice to be able to
say that! ).
I had a quick look in IE Mac and it does have a few things needing
.
Nick
Nick Lo wrote:
COASTAL DEVELOPMENT
4. Mayor Casts Doubt Over Magnetic Is Report (Great
Barrier Reef)
5. Hope for Maldives Rises from the Sea (Maldives)
...and looking at the how of doing that; ol start=4
I came up with something. While it's not perfect
If you mean his personal site at...
http://www.olajideolaolorun.com/
...you may have missed down the bottom...
Olajide Olaolorun is proudly powered by WordPress 1.2
...which indicates it actually probably isn't his code anyway.
Nick
h.
what can i say?
is this a joke?
because i compared
jEdit:
http://www.jedit.org/
...and be sure to check out the recommended plugins in the jEdit Wiki:
http://community.jedit.org/cgi-bin/TWiki/view/Main/PluginsOverview
Nick
Greetings Every One!
After 1st Page 2000, I'm using AceHTML 5 Pro to build websites
(info: http://www.visicommedia.com/).
Hi Michael,
One thing I'd suggest if you're learning PHP is to from the very start
try as much as possible to avoid having PHP generate your HTML (as in
your example).
I started coding PHP over 4 years ago using an e-commerce system that
generated large amounts of the HTML and I still now
http://www.stylegala.com
motivated by the recent email about http://www.chevrolet.com is
there an up to date list of well constructed websites that use CSS. -
Roly
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Hello,
I'm currently re-reviewing means to allow my client (a non-profit org)
to add formatted articles to a content management system.
I've spent a good while reviewing the alternatives from in-browser
wysiwyg's/ javascript driven tag generator/html editors to something
external like Mozilla
Hi Jonothan,
Yeah, I'd considered that for the future however right now as far as I
know Word 2004 on the Mac does not have the ability to save as XML.
Since one of the users is a Mac user (so am i in fact) that solution
will have to wait.
Thanks,
Nick
My recommendation would be to create an
Hi Neerav,
In fact much like my last reply to Jonothan I'd also considered doing
that, with PHP 5 having the Tidy extension, as a future thing.
Thanks,
Nick
Ive never tried it but AFAIK Tidy http://tidy.sourceforge.net/ can be
used server side to clean up code on POST eg:
Via http://www.webstandardsawards.com :
http://www.esfootwear.com
Nick
Hi Folks,
I was just wondering if anybody can point me in the direction of a
sportswear or fashion site using web standards?
Andy Budd
http://www.message.uk.com/
*
The
Hi Gerd,
You mean a bit like one I have at:
http://www.amcs.org.au
Which is based on...
http://www.gazingus.org/html/Using_Lists_for_DHTML_Menus.html
Nick
Hi Folks!
Could one of you please point me to a vertical menu solution based on
css/js and semantically structured by ul/li's?
I'd love to
This question is not really very easily Googlable so I'm posting it
here.
I vaguely remember reading that the order in which a state styles
appeared in a stylesheet was important.
I made a rough memory recall thingy: LoVe HAte (not an acronym but must
have some official name) to stand for:
http://www.designbyfire.com/99.html
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I think that's a great idea actually. In theory yes we should all avoid
hacks but there are a few reasons where a big fat list of the
standard hacks, reasons for use and pros and cons would be useful...
1. If a deadline is looming and a hack will temporarily get you through
it without
I just think it is a little simplistic and idealistic to tell
newcomers to css that all hacks are bad.
Good post Scott...It's a relief seeing real world scenarios used to
backup reasons and choices. I'm often surprised at the number of
educate your clients to understand why they cannot have
The first step should be a clear and unequivocal statement that we
will not
write fixes for new non-compliant browsers. Design a new Browser by all
means, but make it compliant.
By non-compliant you mean that they do not adhere to the standards
put down by the W3C whose role is the development
Well to bring it tenuously back on topic...
Take a look at some of the features on that page then take a trip to
alistapart.com with a checklist:
Mountaintop Corners
Sliding Doors
etc...
...and I forget where I've seen that background quotes idea before.
What I'm driving at is not that the
Although as I'd already posted today...
http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2004/05/13/gasp_tables/index.php
...has an objective look at it.
How about this article, helpfully titled Why tables for layout is
stupid.
http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/
Also, I highly recommend Jeffrey Zeldman's
Ha funny, I've been pointing to...
http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2004/05/13/gasp_tables/index.php
...which was pointing to your weblog and here you are on the list
anyway!
Next time I should just check the roster and leave you to respond to
the Tables are bad because... posts!
Nick
Via Mezzoblue:
http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2004/05/13/gasp_tables/index.php
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What is ecma?
Standards organisation:
http://www.ecma-international.org/
of which...
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-262.htm
...is the standard for ECMAScript scripting language which is
essentially javascript standardised. Flash's actionscript is also based
on
What annoys me is that with the proliferation of this sort of thing,
people will get used to it, accept it, then not really notice that they
have to do it all the time, and then no one will realise that we've
just
condemned visually impaired users (and anyone else who can't load
images
for
Does everyone else on the list do this?
For the sake of 11k that is cached on the first page load it seems a
little drastic. I do programming work as well as markup and the
indentation/formatting of the code is very important in producing
readable code. If it was only me looking at the CSS
Yeah pretty well what I was thinking I mean in practice CSS files are
often shared and the very process of using CSS based layouts v's tables
already trims a huge load off the page size anyway. It just seemed
almost scarily ...thorough... to be trimming the stylesheet in this way
as well.
Hi Brian,
You seem to be getting jumped on a bit for this and I'd say it's
largely a matter of preference so a little pointless to go on at length
about.
However, you are inviting comment by saying bloat and that is all the
stuff that makes code pretty and easily readable by inexperienced
I was wondering if any of you had opinions/thoughts on the use of
CAPTCHA tests (or whatever proper name is given to the little numbered
images used to verify a form submitting user is human and not a
spamming machine).
They are obviously a reaction to the ever increasing amounts of spam
Not sure if it's been pointed to:
By MACCAWS:
MACCAWS' mission is to provide Web authors with the resources
necessary to promote Web standards as a commercially desirable choice
for clients.
http://www.maccaws.org/kit/way-forward/
Nick
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Just came across this...
http://www.scotconnect.com/webtypography/index.php
Nick
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Hi Jeff,
Looks like it may have worked...thanks very much...and to all the
others that could've helped if I'd included the URL!
Nick
Hi Nick
Try:
H1 {position: relative;}
This might help; I came up against the same problem in IE6 and found
that this fixed the problem.
Jeff
Hi Peter,
I feel the same way however I'm working on tidying a variation of
drop-down navigation at http://www.amcs.org.au right now and this one
does have some benefits.
For one since it's just an HTML list it actually places what's almost a
site map on every page which should be good for
Hi Peter,
The problem with this method is that it confuses the user. I looked at
this
site last night with your previous problem and was very surprised by
the
action when I clicked on About AMCS.
Clicking on a navbar item should do what all other navbars do, take
you to
the page.
Visually,
Or...how about drawing a clear conclusion to the problem. It's a bit
frustrating going through list/forum archives when a thread covering a
problem that seems to be like your own suddenly dries up.
If the thanks specifies the solution to the problem then I think it's
very valuable. Perhaps we
Dear me, little obvious that I've been slogging through this to the
point of eye twitching...the URL is:
http://www.amcs.org.au
...and thanks again Russ,
Nick
No objections to any of my templates being used partially or fully.
They
were put online to be used and/or abused as needed :)
Russ
On that note have you considered just releasing it straight on to video
or dvd and selling it? It'd be a laborious job to have to edit and web
format all that footage and equally laborious to have to watch it via
the web. I think this kind of thing (especially a run through of how
blind users
Hi Mike,
I understand what you're getting at however I think you need to invert
the way you're looking at it and see the increasing volume of quality
posts as well.
Personally, I think this is a great list and yes there are times when I
think this or that post could have held off posting.
Don't forget that it also has a lot to do with what you're using to
edit the files. I use jEdit with it's folding functionality set to
indent which means...
div.row span.left
{
float: left;
text-align: left;
font-weight: bold;
color: #fff;
width: 49%;
}
Hi Pete,
Funny, I was going to mention this to the list but I hesitated.
However, after your reply below I'm glad Tim didn't hesitate. I don't
know about anyone else, but your reasons why, coming from such a high
profile site, are a great advertisement/example to Australian clients
of
Hi Peter,
Put them on every page of your site and ideally they should be specific
to that page...as in This page is about... type stuff.
Nick
Dumb question but ...
Do you repeat your META tags on every page of your site, or only the
index page?
Thanks
Peter
Hi Jaime,
Slightly off the discussion but I can't help thinking that if I was you
in that chain of command...
Client --- Design Firm --- Subcontracted Freelancer --
Sub-subcontracted You
...I'd be very wary of work that has supposedly strict guidelines to
follow yet the flow of project
Here's how to enable it:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20030110063041629
However, before you get too excited it can pretend to be a bunch of
different browsers merely refers to it's ability to set the User Agent
HTTP header to say it's another browser. Useful e.g. when online
Hi Peter,
You might like to read this for one:
Multiple IE's in Windows
http://www.insert-title.com/web_design/?page=articles/dev/multi_IE
...and while the topic is raised. I'd be interested how others are
doing their cross browser testing, browser cam, Mac with Virtual PC,
multiple boxes,
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