I agree with Patrick here. My only concern is with those web designers on IE/WIN, if avoiding px, who make type that will display much too small on other platforms/browsers. And the converse for me, now that I'm redesigning my site using % type ( http://www.langfeldesigns.com/test/index.html ).
I was just working on that last night, firefox and ie displaying fonts
different. Ended up cutting back on too many different font sizes in
stylesheet, then went small on body tag, and % on a couple others...
Ended up working good. I found just using em and % to some extent difficult
Bruce
A List Apart, size matters:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/sizematters/
An excellent writeup on the matter, among a few others at the site..
Bruce
www.bkdesign.ca
Marilyn Langfeld wrote:
I agree with Patrick here. My only concern is with those web designers
on IE/WIN, if avoiding px, who make
I hope I'm not out of line here, but as a webstandards group it is
interesting that a simple matter of font size is awaiting being
addressed by the G8 presidency team...I included this for general interest
...but at least they are aware of it.
Bruce
www.bkdesign.ca
Dear Bruce,
Thank you for
Bruce wrote:
I hope I'm not out of line here, but as a webstandards group it is
interesting that a simple matter of font size is awaiting being
addressed by the G8 presidency team...I included this for general interest
...but at least they are aware of it.
Considering it's a governmental site
On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 13:55:38 -0500, Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I hope I'm not out of line here, but as a webstandards group it is
interesting that a simple matter of font size is awaiting being
addressed by the G8 presidency team...I included this for general interest
...but at least they
Which standard exactly prohibits use of px as font-size unit?
Exactly this one: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-CSS-TECHS/#units
and soon this one: http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-WCAG20-CSS-TECHS-20040730/
--
regards, Kornel Lesiski
**
The discussion
That's not exactly the way I read it. But then I can't read. ~d
On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:45:24 -, Kornel Lesinski [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Which standard exactly prohibits use of px as font-size unit?
Exactly this one: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-CSS-TECHS/#units
and soon this one:
These are *guidelines* are they not? As opposed to hard-fast rules?
...This document provides information to Web content developers who
wish to satisfy the success criteria of Web Content Accessibility
Guidelines 2.0
note the word 'Guidelines'...
?
Tom Livingston
Senior
I absolutely hate to jump into the topic of font-size issue, because I
think this is
the question of religion, not web standards.
Which standard exactly prohibits use of px as font-size unit?
On the issue of pixel sizes, the guideline that best describes the pixels
issue is Web Content
Rimantas Liubertas wrote:
Which standard exactly prohibits use of px as font-size unit?
WCAG 1.0, checkpoint 3.4
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/#tech-relative-units
(although there have been discussions recently on the WAI-IG list about
whether or not some of these have now been overtaken by
To quote part of what I posted from G8 web:
This is an accessibility issue that we are aware of and hope to be able
to address in the near future.
I really don't think this is an important matter that would need
permission to post anywhere. It isn't a secret. Perhaps I am out of
line here,
-Original Message-
From: Rimantas Liubertas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, 8 January 2005 6:49 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards
To be more precise: what percentage of unfortunate web surfers knows
that it is possible to change
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 09:17:53 +1100, russ - maxdesign
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
As pointed out, these are guidelines only, and open to interpretation. For
example, pixels could be interpreted to be relative units, as explained by
Derek Featherstone:
russ - maxdesign wrote:
I'd put the question back to the group... Rather than ask why should
I not use pixels, as there is nowhere that forces me not to, why
not ask how can I make my content as accessible to the widest
audience possible.
If you ask this question, then right now, with the
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 10:18:55 +1100, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media]
...
- It may be hard to believe for some, but many computer users do not know
how to install a different browser. In fact, many of them don't even know
that there is anything else but IE.
...
All you say is true.
And there
I think that the point of this discussion is partially missed, making font
size scalable is not just about making a site accessible for people with
special needs - it benefits everyone! Consider this scenario:
Acme Company hires Zippo Web Dev to create their website
Zippo decide 8px Arial is
-Original Message-
From: Rimantas Liubertas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, 8 January 2005 10:44 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards
So what exactly makes you think those users will:
a) know hot to change font size
We have to make
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 10:51:54 +1100, Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think that the point of this discussion is partially missed, making font
size scalable is not just about making a site accessible for people with
special needs - it benefits everyone! Consider this scenario:
Acme Company
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 11:02:53 +1100, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media]
...
Not all users with visual disabilities use a screen reader. Some may only
require a larger font size or a different font colour. Others use screen
readers in combination with enlarged fonts. A user I tested once insisted
Rimantas Liubertas wrote:
These users would benefit most from the 'Accessibility' options under
Options menu.That allows them:
Ignore colors specified on Web pages
Ignore font-styles specified on Web pages
Ignore font-sizes specified on Web pages
Use own stylesheet
Cute...first you argue that
Rimantas Liubertas wrote:
So we may as well end up spending time and money to implement
something what is never used.
How much time and money does it cost to avoid using px (which does cause
real world problems in the erroneous implementation of IE/Win, and
therefore calls for an interim
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
Quote:
And for these users in the know, a quick CTRL+MOUSE WHEEL UP/DOWN is a
lot less of a hassle to do on a per-site basis than digging through
accessibility options and disabling things for *all* sites (even the
ones that show a minimal amount of consideration).
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 01:13:03 +, Patrick H. Lauke
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How much time and money does it cost to avoid using px (which does cause
real world problems in the erroneous implementation of IE/Win, and
therefore calls for an interim solution in the spirit of WCAG 1.0
On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:23:20 -0500, Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
Quote:
And for these users in the know, a quick CTRL+MOUSE WHEEL UP/DOWN is a
lot less of a hassle to do on a per-site basis than digging through
accessibility options and disabling things for *all*
Rimantas Liubertas wrote:
Amazing! I have been online and studying for 10 years, and guess what? I
didn't know this...
I guess I have nothing to add here.
This would be insightful if Bruce was a user that actually needed/relied
on resizable fonts.
--
Patrick H. Lauke
Rimantas Liubertas wrote:
Excuse me? 'erroneous implementation'?
Which specification says how text-zooming should be implemented?
Arguably, UAAG 1.0 guideline 4.1
http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG10/guidelines.html#tech-configure-text-scale
--
Patrick H. Lauke
That was my point. Not that I was dumb or anything, but lots of us don't
know some things. Including those with eyesite difficulties, and that a
site guide would be nice. If I could miss that, many others have also.
Bruce
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
Rimantas Liubertas wrote:
Amazing! I have been
Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote:
G.S: Two factors creates this accessibility-problem with
pixel-defined text: - Web designers in general don't know that
IE/win can *override* font sizes. - Users in general don't know
that either.
The technical side of it:
IE/win has ignore font size...
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 03:17:17 +, Patrick H. Lauke
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Rimantas Liubertas wrote:
Excuse me? 'erroneous implementation'?
Which specification says how text-zooming should be implemented?
Arguably, UAAG 1.0 guideline 4.1
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