For those who are interested in some of the options out there.
DIY DAS:
Supermicro 36 bay case - $1800
Promise 16 bay JBOD VTrak J610sD - $3700
Promise VTE610sD - $7500 (SAS attached head unit with onboard raid controllers,
takes JBOD expansion)
The following apply to 1TB SATA drive
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010, matthew patton wrote:
Of the we force you to buy our overinflated drives camp, Dell is
the cheapest but also the most inefficient by far on power/space.
The HP puts 70 disks in 4U. NexSan 42, and Sun 48. The clear winner
here is HP.
What is the performance like with
Eric D. Mudama edmud...@bounceswoosh.org writes:
On Tue, Feb 9 at 2:36, Kjetil Torgrim Homme wrote:
no one is selling disk brackets without disks. not Dell, not EMC,
not NetApp, not IBM, not HP, not Fujitsu, ...
http://discountechnology.com/Products/SCSI-Hard-Drive-Caddies-Trays
very
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Thomas Burgess wonsl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 09:33:12PM -0500, Thomas Burgess wrote:
This is a far cry from an apples to apples comparison though.
As much as I'm no fan of Apple, it's a pity they dropped ZFS because
that would have
On 2/9/10 12:03 PM +1100 Daniel Carosone wrote:
Snorcle wants to sell hardware.
LOL ... snorcle
But apparently they don't. Have you seen the new website? Seems like a
blatant attempt to kill the hardware business to me.
___
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On 9-Feb-10, at 2:02 PM, Frank Cusack wrote:
On 2/9/10 12:03 PM +1100 Daniel Carosone wrote:
Snorcle wants to sell hardware.
LOL ... snorcle
But apparently they don't. Have you seen the new website? Seems
like a
blatant attempt to kill the hardware business to me.
That's very sad.
On Feb 8, 2010, at 20:03, Daniel Carosone wrote:
Snorcle wants to sell hardware.
Larry Ellison wants Oracle to be a systems company, a la T. J.
Watson Jr.'s IBM and Cisco:
We are not going into the hardware business. We have no interest in
the hardware business. We have a deep interest
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Toby Thain t...@telegraphics.com.au wrote:
On 9-Feb-10, at 2:02 PM, Frank Cusack wrote:
On 2/9/10 12:03 PM +1100 Daniel Carosone wrote:
Snorcle wants to sell hardware.
LOL ... snorcle
But apparently they don't. Have you seen the new website? Seems
On 2/9/10 5:19 PM -0600 Tim Cook wrote:
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Toby Thain t...@telegraphics.com.au
wrote:
On 9-Feb-10, at 2:02 PM, Frank Cusack wrote:
On 2/9/10 12:03 PM +1100 Daniel Carosone wrote:
Snorcle wants to sell hardware.
LOL ... snorcle
But apparently they don't.
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Frank Cusack
frank+lists/z...@linetwo.netwrote:
I assume you are responding to my comment and not Toby's. Did you try
to drill down past the front page? To look at the specs for ANY server?
I just thought it was much more difficult to look at and compare
On Tue, Feb 9 at 2:36, Kjetil Torgrim Homme wrote:
Daniel Carosone d...@geek.com.au writes:
In that context, I haven't seen an answer, just a conclusion:
- All else is not equal, so I give my money to some other hardware
manufacturer, and get frustrated that Sun won't let me buy the
This is a long thread, with lots of interesting and valid observations
about the organisation of the industry, the segmentation of the
market, getting what you pay for vs paying for what you want, etc.
I don't really find within, however, an answer to the original
question, at least the way I
Daniel Carosone d...@geek.com.au writes:
In that context, I haven't seen an answer, just a conclusion:
- All else is not equal, so I give my money to some other hardware
manufacturer, and get frustrated that Sun won't let me buy the
parts I could use effectively and comfortably.
Just like i said way earlier, The entire idea is like asking to buy a
Ferrari without the aluminum wheels they sell because you think they are
charging too much for them, after all, aluminum is cheap.
It's just not done that way. There are OTHER OPTIONS for people who can't
afford it. You
On Monday, February 8, 2010, Kjetil Torgrim Homme kjeti...@linpro.no wrote:
Daniel Carosone d...@geek.com.au writes:
In that context, I haven't seen an answer, just a conclusion:
- All else is not equal, so I give my money to some other hardware
manufacturer, and get frustrated that Sun
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 9:13 PM, Tim Cook t...@cook.ms wrote:
On Monday, February 8, 2010, Kjetil Torgrim Homme kjeti...@linpro.no
wrote:
Daniel Carosone d...@geek.com.au writes:
In that context, I haven't seen an answer, just a conclusion:
- All else is not equal, so I give my money
Tim Cook wrote:
On Monday, February 8, 2010, Kjetil Torgrim Homme kjeti...@linpro.no wrote:
Daniel Carosone d...@geek.com.au writes:
In that context, I haven't seen an answer, just a conclusion:
- All else is not equal, so I give my money to some other hardware
manufacturer, and
Although I am in full support of what sun is doing, to play devils
advocate: supermicro is.
They're not the only ones, although the most-often discussed here.
Dell will generally sell hardware and warranty and service add-ons in
any combination, to anyone willing and capable of figuring
On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 09:33:12PM -0500, Thomas Burgess wrote:
This is a far cry from an apples to apples comparison though.
As much as I'm no fan of Apple, it's a pity they dropped ZFS because
that would have brought considerable attention to the opportunity of
marketing and offering
On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Kjetil Torgrim Homme kjeti...@linpro.nowrote:
matthew patton patto...@yahoo.com writes:
true. but I buy a Ferrari for the engine and bodywork and chassis
engineering. It is totally criminal what Sun/EMC/Dell/Netapp do
charging customers 10x the open-market
Tim Cook t...@cook.ms writes:
Kjetil Torgrim Homme kjeti...@linpro.no wrote:
I don't know what the J4500 drive sled contains, but for the J4200
and J4400 they need to include quite a bit of circuitry to handle
SAS protocol all the way, for multipathing and to be able to
accept a
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 1:58 PM, Tim Cook t...@cook.ms wrote:
It's called spreading the costs around. Would you really rather pay 10x
the price on everything else besides the drives? This is essentially Sun's
way of tiered pricing. Rather than charge you a software fee based on how
much
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 9:07 PM, Marc Nicholas geekyth...@gmail.com wrote:
I believe magical unicorn controllers and drives are both bug-free and
100% spec compliant. The leprichorns sell them if you're trying to
find them ;)
Well, perfect and bug free sure don't exist in our industry.
The
On 2/8/10 12:49 AM -0200 Giovanni Tirloni wrote:
I think the industry is in a sad state when you buy enterprise-level
drives and they don't work as expected (see that thread about TLER
settings on WD enterprise drives) that you have to spend extra on drives
that got reviewed by a third-party
matthew patton patto...@yahoo.com writes:
true. but I buy a Ferrari for the engine and bodywork and chassis
engineering. It is totally criminal what Sun/EMC/Dell/Netapp do
charging customers 10x the open-market rate for standard drives. A
RE3/4 or NS drive is the same damn thing no matter if
On 2/6/10 4:51 PM +0100 Kjetil Torgrim Homme wrote:
the pricing does look strange, and I think it would be better to raise
the price of the enclosure (which is silly cheap when empty IMHO) and
reduce the drive prices somewhat. but that's just psychology, and
doesn't really matter for total
On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 03:02:21PM -0800, Brandon High wrote:
Another solution, for a true DIY x4500: BackBlaze has schematics for
the 45 drive chassis that they designed available on their website.
http://blog.backblaze.com/2009/09/01/petabytes-on-a-budget-how-to-build-cheap-cloud-storage/
This seems to miss the point. I presented an argument for why I think the
qualified drives are a huge profit-center, not just making a reasonable
profit on the work of qualification.
In general, I'd much rather pay reasonable costs for each piece, rather
than weird costs artificially
On 2-Feb-10, at 10:11 PM, Marc Nicholas wrote:
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 9:52 PM, Toby Thain
t...@telegraphics.com.au wrote:
On 2-Feb-10, at 1:54 PM, Orvar Korvar wrote:
100% uptime for 20 years?
So what makes OpenVMS so much more stable than Unix? What is the
difference?
The short
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:58 PM, matthew patton patto...@yahoo.com wrote:
what with the home NAS conversations, what's the trick to buy a J4500 without
any drives? SUN like every other enterprise storage vendor thinks it's ok
to rape their customers and I for one, am not interested in paying
On Wed, February 3, 2010 17:02, Brandon High wrote:
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:58 PM, matthew patton patto...@yahoo.com wrote:
what with the home NAS conversations, what's the trick to buy a J4500
without any drives? SUN like every other enterprise storage vendor
thinks it's ok to rape their
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 3:13 PM, David Dyer-Bennet d...@dd-b.net wrote:
Which is to say that 45 drives is really quite a lot for a HOME NAS.
Particularly when you then think about backing up that data.
The origin of this thread was how to buy a J4500 (48 drive chassis).
One thing that I enjoy
Brandon High wrote:
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 3:13 PM, David Dyer-Bennet d...@dd-b.net wrote:
Which is to say that 45 drives is really quite a lot for a HOME NAS.
Particularly when you then think about backing up that data.
The origin of this thread was how to buy a J4500 (48 drive
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:58 PM, matthew patton patto...@yahoo.com wrote:
what with the home NAS conversations, what's the trick to buy a J4500 without
any drives? SUN like every other enterprise storage vendor thinks it's ok
to rape their customers and I for one, am not interested in paying
A dumb question:
I see 24 drives in an external chassi. I presume that chassis does only hold
drives, it does not hold a motherboard.
How do you connect all drives to your OpenSolaris server? Do you place them
next to each other, and then you have three 8 SATA ports in your OpenSolaris
Ok, I see that the chassi contains a mother board. So never mind that question.
Another q:
Is it possible to have large chassi with lots of drives, and the opensolaris in
another chassi, how do you connect them both?
--
This message posted from opensolaris.org
On Tue, February 2, 2010 02:24, matthew patton wrote:
true. but I buy a Ferrari for the engine and bodywork and chassis
engineering. It is totally criminal what Sun/EMC/Dell/Netapp do charging
customers 10x the open-market rate for standard drives. A RE3/4 or NS
drive is the same damn thing
true. but I buy a Ferrari for the engine and bodywork and chassis
engineering. It is totally criminal what Sun/EMC/Dell/Netapp do charging
its interesting to read this with another thread containing:
timeout issue is definitely the WD10EARS disks.
replaced 24 of them with ST32000542AS (f/w
On Tue, February 2, 2010 01:26, James C. McPherson wrote:
The engineering ratings are different to what you can buy from
your local corner PC store, and the firmware is different. The
qualification is done with the assumption that the disks will be
spinning every single second for a number
On Tue, February 2, 2010 01:27, Tim Cook wrote:
Except you think the original engineering is just a couple grand, and
that's
where you're wrong. I hate the prices just as much as the next guy, but
they do in fact need to feed their families. In fact, they need to do a
hell of a lot more
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 9:45 AM, David Dyer-Bennet d...@dd-b.net wrote:
On Tue, February 2, 2010 01:27, Tim Cook wrote:
Except you think the original engineering is just a couple grand, and
that's
where you're wrong. I hate the prices just as much as the next guy, but
they do in fact
On Tue, February 2, 2010 09:58, Tim Cook wrote:
It's called spreading the costs around. Would you really rather pay 10x
the price on everything else besides the drives?
This seems to miss the point. I presented an argument for why I think the
qualified drives are a huge profit-center, not
I agree wholeheartedlyyou're paying to make the problem go away in an
expedient manner. That said, I see how much we spend on NetApp storage at
work and it makes me shudder ;)
I think someone was wondering if the large storage vendors have their own
microcode on drives? I can tell you that
Marc Nicholas geekyth...@gmail.com wrote:
I think someone was wondering if the large storage vendors have their own
microcode on drives? I can tell you that NetApp do...and that's one way they
lock you in (if the drive doesn't report NetApp firmware, the filer will
reject the drive) and also
On Tue, February 2, 2010 10:21, Marc Nicholas wrote:
I agree wholeheartedlyyou're paying to make the problem go away in
an
expedient manner. That said, I see how much we spend on NetApp storage at
work and it makes me shudder ;)
Yes, exactly. Pricing must be about right, people wince
This reminds me of this attorney that charged very much for a contract template
he copied and gave to a client. To that, he responded:
-You dont pay for me finding this template and copying to you, which took me 5
minutes. You pay me because I sat 5 years in the university, and have 15 years
of
On Feb 2, 2010, at 8:49 AM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
On Tue, February 2, 2010 10:21, Marc Nicholas wrote:
I agree wholeheartedlyyou're paying to make the problem go away in
an
expedient manner. That said, I see how much we spend on NetApp storage at
work and it makes me shudder ;)
Yes,
On February 2, 2010 8:57:32 AM -0800 Orvar Korvar
knatte_fnatte_tja...@yahoo.com wrote:
I love that Sun shares their products for free. Which other big Unix
vendor does that?
Who's left?
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On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Frank Cusack
frank+lists/z...@linetwo.netwrote:
On February 2, 2010 8:57:32 AM -0800 Orvar Korvar
knatte_fnatte_tja...@yahoo.com wrote:
I love that Sun shares their products for free. Which other big Unix
vendor does that?
Who's left?
Pretty sure HP and
* On 02 Feb 2010, Orvar Korvar wrote:
Ok, I see that the chassi contains a mother board. So never mind that
question.
Another q: Is it possible to have large chassi with lots of drives,
and the opensolaris in another chassi, how do you connect them both?
The J4500 and most other storage
On February 2, 2010 11:58:17 AM -0600 Tim Cook t...@cook.ms wrote:
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Frank Cusack
frank+lists/z...@linetwo.netwrote:
On February 2, 2010 8:57:32 AM -0800 Orvar Korvar
knatte_fnatte_tja...@yahoo.com wrote:
I love that Sun shares their products for free. Which
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Frank Cusack
frank+lists/z...@linetwo.netwrote:
On February 2, 2010 11:58:17 AM -0600 Tim Cook t...@cook.ms wrote:
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Frank Cusack
frank+lists/z...@linetwo.netwrote:
On February 2, 2010 8:57:32 AM -0800 Orvar Korvar
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 5:41 AM, Orvar Korvar
knatte_fnatte_tja...@yahoo.com wrote:
I see 24 drives in an external chassi. I presume that chassis does only hold
drives, it does not hold a motherboard.
How do you connect all drives to your OpenSolaris server? Do you place them
next to each
On February 2, 2010 12:08:13 PM -0600 Tim Cook t...@cook.ms wrote:
Not exactly unix, but there's still VMS clusters running around out there
with 100% uptime for over 20 years. I wouldn't mind seeing it opened up.
Agreed, I'd love to see that opened up. Might even give it new life.
100% uptime for 20 years?
So what makes OpenVMS so much more stable than Unix? What is the difference?
--
This message posted from opensolaris.org
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Also, both of those chassis come in SAS expander version and JBOD. the SAS
expander version is the E1 version of the case. With the SAS Expander, and a
motherboard using the LSI2008 or LSI1068 chipset, you can attach one cable from
the SAS port (SFF8087) to the SAS expander and have all the
1) SAS HBA seems to be an I/O card which has SAS cable connection. It sits in
the OSol server. It is basically just a simple I/O card, right? I hope these
cards are cheap?
2) So I can buy a disk chassi with 24 disks, connect all disks to one SAS cable
and connect that SAS cable to my OSol
On Tue, February 2, 2010 11:26, Richard Elling wrote:
On Feb 2, 2010, at 8:49 AM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
On Tue, February 2, 2010 10:21, Marc Nicholas wrote:
I agree wholeheartedlyyou're paying to make the problem go away
in
an
expedient manner. That said, I see how much we spend on
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Orvar Korvar
knatte_fnatte_tja...@yahoo.com wrote:
100% uptime for 20 years?
So what makes OpenVMS so much more stable than Unix? What is the
difference?
They had/have clustering software that was/is bulletproof. I don't think
anyone in the Unix community
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 2:14 PM, David Dyer-Bennet d...@dd-b.net wrote:
On Tue, February 2, 2010 11:26, Richard Elling wrote:
On Feb 2, 2010, at 8:49 AM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
On Tue, February 2, 2010 10:21, Marc Nicholas wrote:
I agree wholeheartedlyyou're paying to make the
On Tue, February 2, 2010 14:21, Tim Cook wrote:
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 2:14 PM, David Dyer-Bennet d...@dd-b.net wrote:
On Tue, February 2, 2010 11:26, Richard Elling wrote:
On Feb 2, 2010, at 8:49 AM, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
On Tue, February 2, 2010 10:21, Marc Nicholas wrote:
I agree
On 2010-Feb-03 00:12:43 +0800, Bob Friesenhahn bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us
wrote:
On Tue, 2 Feb 2010, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
Now, I'm sure not ALL drives offered at Newegg could qualify; but the
question is, how much do I give up by buying an enterprise-grade drive
from a major
On Feb 2, 2010, at 10:54 AM, Orvar Korvar wrote:
100% uptime for 20 years?
So what makes OpenVMS so much more stable than Unix? What is the difference?
Software reliability studies show that the more reliable software is
old software that hasn't changed :-)
On Feb 2, 2010, at 12:42 PM,
On February 2, 2010 4:31:47 PM -0500 Miles Nordin car...@ivy.net wrote:
and FCoE is just dumb if you have IB, honestly.
by FCoE are you talking about iSCSI?
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On Tue, 2 Feb 2010, Frank Cusack wrote:
On February 2, 2010 4:31:47 PM -0500 Miles Nordin car...@ivy.net wrote:
and FCoE is just dumb if you have IB, honestly.
by FCoE are you talking about iSCSI?
No. They are different. FCoE uses raw ethernet packets and
ethernet switches can/should
On Feb 2, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Frank Cusack wrote:
On February 2, 2010 4:31:47 PM -0500 Miles Nordin car...@ivy.net wrote:
and FCoE is just dumb if you have IB, honestly.
by FCoE are you talking about iSCSI?
FCoE is to iSCSI as Netware (IPX/SPX) is to NFS :-)
-- richard
On Feb 2, 2010, at 2:56 PM, David Magda wrote:
On Feb 2, 2010, at 15:17, Tim Cook wrote:
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Orvar Korvar wrote:
100% uptime for 20 years?
So what makes OpenVMS so much more stable than Unix? What is the
difference?
They had/have clustering software
fc == Frank Cusack frank+lists/z...@linetwo.net writes:
fc by FCoE are you talking about iSCSI?
FCoE is an L2 design where ethernet ``pause'' frames can be sent
specific to one of the seven CoS levels instead of applying to the
entire port, which makes PAUSE abuseable for other purposes
On Tue, 2 Feb 2010, Miles Nordin wrote:
fc == Frank Cusack frank+lists/z...@linetwo.net writes:
fc by FCoE are you talking about iSCSI?
FCoE is an L2 design where ethernet ``pause'' frames can be sent
specific to one of the seven CoS levels instead of applying to the
entire port, which
On 2-Feb-10, at 1:54 PM, Orvar Korvar wrote:
100% uptime for 20 years?
So what makes OpenVMS so much more stable than Unix? What is the
difference?
The short answer is that uptimes like that are VMS *cluster* uptimes.
Individual hosts don't necessarily have that uptime, but the cluster
what with the home NAS conversations, what's the trick to buy a J4500 without
any drives? SUN like every other enterprise storage vendor thinks it's ok to
rape their customers and I for one, am not interested in paying 10x for a silly
SATA hard drive.
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:58 PM, matthew patton patto...@yahoo.com wrote:
what with the home NAS conversations, what's the trick to buy a J4500
without any drives? SUN like every other enterprise storage vendor thinks
it's ok to rape their customers and I for one, am not interested in paying
+--
| On 2010-02-01 23:01:33, Tim Cook wrote:
|
| On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:58 PM, matthew patton patto...@yahoo.com wrote:
|
| what with the home NAS conversations, what's the trick to buy a J4500
| without any
http://www.memoryx.net/5410456.html
I've bought sleds for X4150s and X2270s from them.
interesting mis-description on the web page. thumper doesn't use SCA
drives.
-frank
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On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:58 PM, matthew patton patto...@yahoo.com wrote:
what with the home NAS conversations, what's the trick to buy a J4500
without any drives? SUN like every other enterprise storage vendor thinks
it's ok to rape their customers and I for one, am not interested in paying
charge a premium for their products but they ARE a
enterprise vendor. You
wouldn't say something like hey, where can i buy a Ferrari
without any
wheels...i'm not paying x amount for a silly aluminum
wheel
true. but I buy a Ferrari for the engine and bodywork and chassis engineering.
It
charge a premium for their products but they ARE a
enterprise vendor. You
wouldn't say something like hey, where can i buy a Ferrari
without any
wheels...i'm not paying x amount for a silly aluminum
wheel
true. but I buy a Ferrari for the engine and bodywork and chassis engineering.
It
On 2/02/10 05:17 PM, matthew patton wrote:
charge a premium for their products but they ARE a
enterprise vendor. You
wouldn't say something like hey, where can i buy a Ferrari
without any
wheels...i'm not paying x amount for a silly aluminum
wheel
true. but I buy a Ferrari for the engine
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 1:17 AM, matthew patton patto...@yahoo.com wrote:
charge a premium for their products but they ARE a
enterprise vendor. You
wouldn't say something like hey, where can i buy a Ferrari
without any
wheels...i'm not paying x amount for a silly aluminum
wheel
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 2:17 AM, matthew patton patto...@yahoo.com wrote:
charge a premium for their products but they ARE a
enterprise vendor. You
wouldn't say something like hey, where can i buy a Ferrari
without any
wheels...i'm not paying x amount for a silly aluminum
wheel
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