Hi Paul >Hi >This, hopefully, is my first successful post. My 3 previous ones >never appeared. Anyways.
See previous about "Lost posts". >Methanol is not a major problem, provided you take reasonable >precautions. We go through a fair bit of the stuff (several drums >every month). We ground the drums, ventilate the area and make sure >that fumes are removed. We've been using it for over 20 years with >no injuries unless you count the guy who dropped a drum on his toe >while showing how easy it was to handle the drums. Please don't ask >for details, its a painful memory, but the toe only hurt for a >couple of days. >Gloves, eye protection and organic vapour masks are specified and >not optional. Organic vapour masks do not work with methanol. This is a summing up of previous messages posted by Mark and Jeff (to Biodiesel): From Mark: >It turns out that organic vapor cartridge respirators are useless >against methanol vapors. > >Methanol handling/methoxide mixing can be done in a completely >enclosed environment as well, rather easily and inexpensively, so >don't panic, but it's time to get rid of all our open-tank >methoxide mixers (a la Tickell). I devised a decent carboy-based >non-mechanically-agitated system to minimise methoxide handling >here (look at journeytoforever.org for the 'methoxide the easy way' >description, it's the start of that carboy system I've got) which >can then be plumbed into a closed processor easily. there are many >other ways that others have accomplished this as well. > >I have copied some info below (I believe it might be from the 3M >site, but what I saw from more 'neutral' sources was very similar >to 3M's recommendation not to use organic vapor cartridges for >longer than a few hours max) > >OSHA and the other safety regulators all had the same answer when we >called them: no organic vapor cartridge respirator will protect >against methanol vapors, only a supplied-air system will do so. From Jeff: >Here is the response to my letter asking about the frequency of >filter cartridge changes. Also below is the OSHA blurb on reuse of >cartridges and exposure limits for Methanol as well as the results >of breakthrough tests for a variety of compounds. >Jeffery > > >Jeff, > >Unfortunately, a chemical cartridge is not available for methanol >vapors. Although it's considered an organic vapor, an organic vapor >cartridge doesn't work well. The only option for protection against >methanol is to use a supplied air system. So, rather than trying to enclose yourself, enclose the methanol, not a problem. See: Methoxide the easy way http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth Adding the methoxide http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor5.html#methadd >The vapours are heavier than air and quite flammable at the right >percentages, but then so is gas and cheap scotch. >When I used to mix fuel for modified snowmobiles methanol was the >least toxic of the stuff I used to use. Nitro Methane and Nitro >Benzene were far worse while the 111 Trichorethylene we cleaned with >is something I just don't want to think about. I also don't want to think about that. The things they didn't tell us! >No gloves and no >masks, just youth heavily laced with bravado and stupidity. >If you use the stuff outside for racing or whatever then the vapours >disperse unless you are in an enclosed area. In that case an >organic vapour mask is not at all a bad idea and be careful of >vapour buildup. >There is quite a lot of information on toxicity at >http://www.inchem.org/documents/hsg/hsg/v105hsg.htm. >If you think you're going to get your hands wet I'd use latex gloves >and not nitrile. Both provide excellent protection from methanol, >but latex is better for NaOH. >http://www.adenna.com/pdf/Chemicals%20Resistance.pdf . I'm assuming >that you're mixing for biodiesel. > >By the way, bought my first biodiesel today in Unionville, Ontario. >Ran my truck for a bit and in less than 10 kilometers the engine >quieted down and seems much smoother. Subjective I know, but I >think that I'll record some decibel readings at various speeds and >then retry it with straight diesel. I've gotta get into production. > >Hope this helps >Regards >Paul Marks >2003 F250 SD Crewcab. 5months & 26,000 km >1984 300SD Mercedes (converting to WVO) 267,000 km >1988 GM 18' flatbed diesel - no idea of km >various gas & propane & electric > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Go Hoff >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:09 AM >Subject: [biofuel] Methanol Hazards - provocative mail > > >There are warnings all over alt fuel sites about dealing with >methanol >because of course it is nasty poisonous stuff. I have not been >experimenting >with the process cuss the info on 'journey' and elsewhere scared me. Then you overreacted Go. The warnings are necessary, but at our site anyway it adds this: "On the other hand, a lot of people are doing it -- it's safe enough if you're careful and sensible." As you can see here - a lot of people are doing it, and safely. These chemicals are stuff you find in people's kitchens, maybe even your own kitchen. Yes, methanol too - it's used as fuel for fondue burners and so on, close to the food you're cooking, and quite safe I'm sure. Kids use it in their model aeroplane motors. So get it in perspective, be sensible, and go right ahead, you won't regret it. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever >However I just started re-talking to an old friend who has been >driving >methanol race cars for 34 years. > >He is a non drooling family man with 5 children and a multitude of >grandchildren with a vitality many 30 year olds lack. Apart from >messing >with methanol 6 months of the year he does a lot of head slamming, >violent >body 'G' forced exercises, explosions, engulfing fires and heavy >disagreements between crew and promoters - between rounds, routinely. > >I get the impression that he and his crew sort of slop methanol >around from >the barrel to the container to the race car - he assures me they do >not wear >special clothing or breathing apparatus, he doesn't remember if they >wear >gloves but supposes they do if they have them on at the time. > >I remember buying an USA made hammer in the 70*s it was hung with >labels and >stuff saying to wear protective glasses, gloves, overalls etc and to >keep >children and pets away, not to leave it unattended and to hide it or >lock it >up from potential thieves - failure to do any of that stuff would >void it's >warranty - it was a hammer for goodness sakes - are you Americans >nuts? > >Anyway, I would really like to know if anyone has died by handling - >not >drinking because that is deathly - methanol, and if so if the poison >intrudes through the skin or the airways. > >Hmm... I Guess this is a bit beyond our competence maybe but even my >doctor >agrees, stay curiouse - try and work it out. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
