Camillo, you make a very vaid point about toxic emissions. imagine the problems we'd have if biodesel became confused with raw vegetable oils. You'll no boubt be aware of the press coverage that Volvo got for their "tests" on biodiesel emissions.
They used flawed and inappropriate methods, but as usual it's one rule for established systems and other much harder to meet rules for new products. Much damage was done even though they have been forced to publish a retraction. On fuel quality we have to be "whiter than white" and be seen to be so. Dave --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Camillo Holecek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I hope you are aware of the difference, are you? > > Yes, one can run a diesel engine on straight vegetable oil. The question > maybe, how long a modern engine, dedicated to the use of fossil diesel, will > stand it. > > Yes, you can succesfully mix fossil diesel with a high percentage of > vegetable oil and results will improve. May work well up to a 50:50 mix. > But that is not termed "biodiesel" anywhere in the world. You better tell > them! > > The real problem is, that burning a triglycerid in a combustion engine has > it's own problems. A piston engine always leaves part of the combustible > burned incompletly. The presence of glycerol in that may lead to the > production of traces of very toxic substances!!! And there are no proper, in > depth studies up to this date! That is, why, for example, our company had > decided to dedicate only to transesteryfied fuels (the real biodiesel) > instead of thinkering with raw vegetable oils in engines. > > As you know, transesterification means that the glycerol from the natural > oil is replaced by a smaller, single chain alcohol like methanol or ethanol. > They burn better and without that complication. > > And, yes, we offer technology for processing palmoil into biodiesel. See > also www.energea.at > > Camillo Holecek > Biodiesel Raffinerie GmbH, Austria > > > > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: Samai Jaiin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Gesendet: Montag, 25. Juni 2001 04:16 > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Betreff: Re: AW: [biofuels-biz] Re: Sistem for collecting used oils > > Dear Camillo & Members, > Thanks for your comments, will bear that in mind. Here > is the latest situation of the movement here in > Bangkok and you can see that there is still a lot of > misuderstanding here. > Samai > ----------------- > Latest reports in The Nation June 19th, 2001 > (http://web.thenationthailand.com/page.arcview.php3? clid=3&id=2662&usrsess=1 > ) > > > ----- > PTT defends its biodiesel formula > > > > > A BIODIESEL formula being tested by the Petroleum > Authority of Thailand does not cause excess exhaust or > adversely affect high-speed diesel engines, a senior > official at the agency said yesterday. > Sawaeng Boonyasuwat, of the Petroleum Authority of > Thailand's (PTT) Research and Technology Institute, > said yesterday he was confident in the formula, which > uses 10-per-cent-distilled palm oil mixed with diesel > oil. He believed it was a near-perfect formula. > However, he said the agency would continue to test the > formula on high-speed diesel engines for six more > months to check the biodiesel's long-term impacts. The > experiment would cost about Bt20million, he added. > "The biodiesel will be cheaper than diesel by Bt0.30 a > litre." > Sawaeng said although PTT could conduct a study on the > alternative fuel, it had no particular expertise in > agricultural produce. The PTT would produce and sell > the biodiesel only if it was government policy to do > so, he said. > Meanwhile, an academic at a seminar on biodiesel for > commerce, organised by the Office of the National > Research Board, warned that biodiesel might not be > compatible with vehicles. > Dr Preeda Viboonsawas of Thammasat University's > Sirintorn International Institute of Technology said > biodiesel, which was more viscous than diesel, could > damage the vehicles or their high-speed engines. "It > also emits exhaust fumes higher than that allowed by > law," he said. > Preeda said studies on the biodiesel were conducted > more than a half century ago and no countries had > employed it in a high-speed engine. > > > > --- Camillo Holecek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > One thought on grease trap materials: > > > > BEWARE OF THE CLEANING AGENTS AND DESINFECTANTS in > > that material !!! > > > > You can get yourself into a bunch full of troubles, > > if you want to produce a > > "green" product like BD and someone (like health > > authorities) find those > > typical traces of PCBs, Lindan, and all the other > > goodies in you product and > > you havent even been aware they are there. > > > > Here in Europe, grease trap contents are not even > > feed to biogas digesters > > because of that problem. > > > > So our conclusion was: Yes, it's cheap fat, but no, > > we are not going to use > > it for comercial BD production. > > > > Camillo Holecek > > Biodiesel Raffinerie GmbH > > > > > > > > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > > Von: Samai Jaiin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Juni 2001 09:37 > > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Betreff: Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Sistem for > > collecting used oils > > > > > > Hi Dave,Keith,Steve, > > I wonder if you guys have had experiences with > > grease > > from restuarant's grease trap ? say if we need a > > plant > > to convert the collected grease into methylester; is > > this advisable/viable/technically possible ? Or > > would > > you suggest that we just clean the grease and feed > > it > > to the boilers? > > Samai in Bangkok > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > If existing > > collectors don't have to pay landfill > > > costs or clean-up > > > costs for animal feed they should be able to sell > > it > > > very cheap. If > > > they won't, set up your own collection service > > with > > > agreed contracts > > > at minimal costs to waste oil producers. But don't > > > do it for nothing. > > > No cost = no value = no respect = more dirt and > > mess > > > for you. > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "steve spence" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > the restaurant has to pay for it's removal, and > > it > > > gets landfilled. > > > I'd have > > > > to set up collection contracts, guaranteed > > > removal, and permits for > > > grease > > > > hauling, but would definitely be able to lowball > > > the guys who have > > > to pay > > > > tipping fees at the landfill. > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Spence > > > > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: > > > > http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm > > > > > > > > Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com > > > > Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm > > > > X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax > > > > We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, > > > > we borrow it from our children. > > > > -- > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:48 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Sistem for > > collecting > > > used oils > > > > > > > > > > > > > >why is it expensive to collect used oil? what > > > quantities are you > > > > referring > > > > > >to? there are over 100 restaurants in this > > area > > > (15 miles) > > > > > > > > > > > >would take me a day to collect over 1000 > > > gallons of used grease. > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve > > > > > > > > > > What happens to it if folks like you don't > > > collect it? > > > > > > > > > > Keith Addison > > > > > > > > > > >Steve Spence > > > > > >Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: > > > > > >http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm > > > > > > > > > > > >Renewable Energy Pages - > > http://www.webconx.com > > > > > >Palm Pilot Pages - > > http://www.webconx.com/palm > > > > > >X10 Home Automation - > > > http://www.webconx.com/x10 > > > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >(212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax > > > > > >We do not inherit the earth from our > > ancestors, > > > > > >we borrow it from our children. > > > > > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > >From: "Mauro Knudsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 10:24 AM > > > > > >Subject: [biofuels-biz] Sistem for collecting > > > used oils > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of cheapest kind of oil is the used > > oil > > > (from the > > > > > > > frier), but this system have some > > > disadvantajes, for > > > > > > > example collecting the oil is complicated > > > and > > > > > > > expensive. > > > > > > > So, I designed a new system to collecting > > > this used > > > > > > > oil for make Biodiesel: > > > > > > > _The Biodiesel factory have to make a > > > contract with > > > > > > > the oil factory or the oil refiner. The > > idea > > > is that > > > > > > > the same system of distribution of new oil > > > will > > > > > > > collect the used oil at less from the big > > > consumers > > > > > > > (like fast foods shops or restorants). The > > > biodiesel > > > > > > > factory pay an exchange charge, for > > example, > > > by every > > > > > > > 5 liters of used oil collected, the > > > biodiesel plant > > > > > > > pays 1 liter of new oil to the users. > > > > > > > _In this system all the people wins > > > something, the new > > > > > > > oil producer or refiner wins more market > > > because their > > > > > > > oils will be 20% cheaper without invest > > > anything, > > > > > > > consumers have a descount of 20% in the > > oil > > > price and > > > > > > > the biodiesel plant get a very cheap used > > > oil without > > > > > > > have to collect them. > > > > > > > _This system will work better if the > > > biodiesel plant > > > > > > > work together with a very big oil company. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please send me some coments, I want to > > > improve the > > > > > > > system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mauro Ariel Knudsen > > > > > > > Argentinean Biodieseler. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuels at Journey to Forever > > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > === message truncated === > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk > or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie > > Biofuels at Journey to Forever > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Biofuel at WebConX > http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! 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