Camillo, That news about poor quality German biodiesel and VW is depressing indeed. It's exactly what UK doesn't need. We want to be in production as soon as possible after next April, but if even VW have doubts we'll have even less chance of finding business investors.
Can we not persuade VW to warrant it's cars for DIN 51606 fuel and nothing less? They are well placed to publicise the quailty issue and to promote decent biofuel. Can recognised German and Austrian biodesel professionals not visit them to discuss. My point about separating potentially lower quality esters was just to avoid this issue. Sub DIN 51606 ester has a market, but not at the pumps and it should never be corroding/clogging engines. I agree that to confirm or deny my experiences with various "home brews" you would need to run controlled tests and use a properly equipped laboratory. I'd hoped to convey that point. I am still concerned though. If the different esterification process really do produce different calorific values we have a commercial problem. My crude "tests" indicates this might be so. Does anybody know of any studies which bear out my experience? Dave --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Camillo Holecek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > May I add my two cents, too? > > Here we reach the limit of what could be done without proper analysis of our > products = homemade biodiesel. To clarify such subtleties like the > difference on what you call base/base and acid/base, you can not do without > giving that stuff to a laboratory who is equiped and certified to do DIN > standard testing. Yes, that may be something like 100U$ per sample. No, > there is no other way, unless you call a gas chromatography kit and all the > other testing equipment you own ;-) > > Only then can you KNOW if you have mono/di/triglycerides left in your brew, > or potasium, or soap, or acid (!) or phosphor, or whatever. What do you > think, why the DIN standard consists of more then 30 different chemical and > physical parameters? > > Quality is CRUCIAL in our industry. Some clever, self appointed, german > biodiesel makers have managed to ruin the reputation of BD so much, that it > appeares possible that even VW will bring out it's 2002 models WITHOUT BD > approval in protest of the widespread poor quality biodiesel found at german > pumping stations (poor means of course also way below DIN 51606 quality > standards). > > Camillo Holecek > > > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > m > [mailto:sentto-3381553-178-993619357- [EMAIL PROTECTED] > elist.com]Im Auftrag von Keith Addison > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Juni 2001 07:31 > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Betreff: [biofuels-biz] Re: Bio- vs. Palm Oil? > > >On fuel quality we have to be "whiter than white" and be seen to be > >so. > > > >Dave > > Hi Dave > > Indeed yes. You raised some previous questions about quality. > > >High FFA fats can be acid esterified - see Alecs Kak's recipe on > >www.journeytoforever.org. However, I would add that you do need to > >titrate. High levels of FFA need longer in the acid stage so how long > >is enough if you don't know the FFA content. > > <snip> > > >I'm not convinced the calorific value is as good as plain base > >reacted ester so would appreciate what you find out on that. > > Also: > > >I have tested some ester made using the acid/base/base process. It > >worked fine and I got less byproduct than when I use the normal > >base/base process. However, on base/base ester, my car's fuel trip > >computer will register about 44 mpg after about 5 miles of 70mph > >driving. > > > >With the acid/base product it would struggle to 40mpg under the same > >conditions. Yesterday I added 4 gals of base/base to the tank which > >already contained about 4 gals of acid/base fuel. Within 5 miles, my > >trip computer was showing 44mpg and rising. This is the second time I > >have had this result, so it's not a oneoff event. > > > >We need to be careful. If we try to sell acid/base fuel as being the > >same as base/base fuel then we have to be sure it really IS the same. > > > >I'm sure my acid reacted fuel lost something - oxygens maybe? Is it > >simply stripping the glycerols from FFA, leaving the FFA to mix in > >with the ester made by the base reaction process? This could explain > >the low calorific value. > > > >Proper research is needed on this question. > > I forwarded this to Aleks. Here's his response. > > "Biodiesel has a lower calorific value per litre than triglics mixes > (oil/fat). If he does make more mpg on base bio, this means that he > is driving on something else than methyl esters. I presume that this > would be a mix of methyl/mono-/di-/(possible tri-) glcerids. That's > called sloppy biodiesel. True, it packs more carbon into the > cylinders, but it also emits acroleins. I'm (almost) ashamed to say : > I use it (offroad). It > really packs more power because it has a higher density. On the other > hand, I can > see my exhaust fumes and this isn't quite good. > > "Re titration - determinig exact reaction time is a pain because ffa > levels vary wildly. I established two categories: > 1. up to heavily used liquid fat and medium used solid fat : 1.75 hrs > 2. more than medium used solid fat and up : 2.25 hrs > Longer reaction times just cost time and energy. You get a little > better results, but the price is high." > > Best > > Keith Addison > > > Biofuels at Journey to Forever > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Biofuel at WebConX > http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! 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