Hello Clif >Hello Keith, >As I am fairly new to this list I should have done some achive research >before posting. My bad ..... >You obviously have spent quite some time arguing your opinion on these >political issues. I have not. I spoke from my convictions not from my >expertise.
Sorry Clif, it's a slimy tactic to say you only lost an argument because your opponent is better at arguing. The reason you lost is that you were indeed arguing from your convictions, and, as many people said, those convictions do not stand up to the test of reality. Neither did your arguments, and that's because they're specious, NOT because you were out-argued. >There are folks out there, and I know some of them, who limit their >input to sources which reflect only their particular mindset and they >reject information from other sources as "false" or "biased" whether >or not that is indeed true. They want the world to be a mirror image >of their cherished beliefs whether or not the beliefs are true, good >or wise. That makes no sense. - Gustl, yesterday. "One of the fundamental findings of cognitive science is that people think in terms of frames and metaphors - conceptual structures. The frames are in the synapses of our brains - physically present in the form of neural circuitry. When the facts don't fit the frames, the frames are kept and the facts ignored." -- George Lakoff You encounter facts, you argue, you lose, but you deny the facts anyway and defend your cherished notions. That doesn't stop you calling other people liars though, and failing to prove it. You'll keep right on doing it if we let you, but we won't let you. We've seen it all before here, many times, and we don't welcome it. You have to be honest. > As far as /trolling/ I must admit I am unfamiliar with this term. I >assume it has to do with a certain type of behavior on mailing lists or >in chat rooms. Since I have very little experience in either arena I >will do my best not to do this in the future. I don't believe you. You don't need a degree in it to be a troll, you know quite well what that "certain type of behavior" entails. >I may not be the brightest bulb in the box but I do learn. We see no evidence of that, what we see is denial. We see denial too in your selective responses to the replies you receive. You can't ignore people here anymore than you can ignore the facts. >From now on I >will allow these political issues and religious issues to be discussed >here without my input. That's nice of you! LOL! Will you allow us to discuss biofuels issues too? Like this for instance? > Some of these issues may seem tangential at first. Close >examination, however, will reveal how energy use, foreign policy, >religious perspective, racism and many other "isms" blend to create >the overall milieu in which the topic of biofuels exist. We who have >been here for any length of time agree by consensus that which is >deserving of discussion and that which is not. It's remarkably self >regulating, for the most part. - Robert >I believe I have said this before but I believe that the information >we garner and through which we sift is biofuel for the mind. Politics >may be and often is heavily discussed but through this we gain an >understanding of others who may be vastly different from ourselves and >we come to learn that although there are many differences we have a >common thread running through this which is that we wish good for >ourselves and no harm to others. What gets in the way of this is >partisanship whether it is religious, political, economic, racial or >whatever else. Through these discussions we get closer to the truth >of things and become closer to being an organic whole. - Gustl >With my somewhat limited verbal sparring skills >and my deep seated convictions I would simply get in the way of >/meaningful /discussions. Is this "penitent" enough for you ? Drop the BS Clif, it doesn't work. >The unanimously vehement reaction to my comments speaks volumes. Thanks >for the education. It is all your's. I don't mind a good fight but why >bother ..... So Clif retires from the field unscathed, both honour and cherished notions intact. You believe it if you like Clif, the other folks here know different. >I will limit my discussions to areas I know even less about, namely >building my first biodiesel processor. WE will limit your discussions Clif, if necessary. Let me refer you once again to this: List rules: http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200 5-May/000007.html Or: http://snipurl.com/gi45 Step out of line again and you're gone. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner >Have at it. > >Signing off from this thread and any other remotely related threads. > >With warm (occassionally very warm) regards, >Clif > > >Keith Addison wrote: > > >Hello Clif > > > > > > > >>Keith Addison wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>My my. And I was just thinking you might be a man who'd do a bit of > >>>checking before he shot his foot off. Again. I do rather wonder what > >>>you mean when you say "right here in America" when actually where you > >>>are right now is right here on the global Internet, on a global > >>>discussion group with a global membership that includes many Muslims > >>>living in Muslim countries, who are probably more aware than you are > >>>of calls from your country - calls and deeds done - to kill them and > >>>their leaders. But that doesn't count, does it? It does here. If you > >>>want outrage over the coverage of the war in Iraq you'll find it > >>>aplenty, but you won't like it - it's outrage at the unquestioning, > >>>knee-jerk coverage your so-called "liberal" press (ROFL!!!) gave to > >>>the pack of blatant lies that led unfailingly to everything and > >>>everybody getting torn to pieces in Iraq (as most of us predicted at > >>>the time), including your precious military, and every single promise > >>>broken. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>Guilty as accused concerning not backing up my statements. I have > >>remedied this in another post. > >> > >> > > > >Well, you haven't given Fred any work, each and every one of your > >refs has been debunked many times before and it's all in the archives. > > > >"In Iraq, we're not fighting for ourselves," said Bean, from his home > >base in Fort Campbell, Ky. "We're over there fighting so the Iraqis > >can have their own Fourth of July." > > > >LOL! Yeah, it's not funny, but black humour's a survival trait these days. > > > > > > > >>And guilty as accused as writing from a > >>decidingly US perspective. I have traveled extensively including > >>performing tsunami relief (as a civilian paying my own way) in Banda > >>Aceh, Indonesia (90+ % Isalmic). Please understand that I have cried > >>with, struggled with and even prayed with Muslims and Christians all > >>over the world. (I have carried out humanitarian efforts in Central and > >>South America and Jordan also.) Unfortunately I was not as sensitive as > >>I should have been to all the readers of this list. > >> > >>I am a former officer in the USAF > >> > >> > > > >So you keep saying. > > > > > > > >>so perhaps I do have a fondness for > >>the fine, exceedingly capable and patriotic men and women serving to > >>protect and defend a country > >> > >> > > > >Americans are inclined to be VERY careful about seeming to criticise > >that, most will pay it due obeisance. But most people here are not > >Americans and can be expected to treat it as the false sacred cow > >that it is. Again, please see the archives, we've had Purple > >Heart-winning US vets arguing with each here before this. So you > >might as well stop saying it, it doesn't secure you any high ground. > > > > > > > >>I personally feel is a pretty good place > >>to live. > >> > >>Perhaps I am living under some delusions and if that is the > >>case then I'm sure someone will try to correct the errors of my ways. > >> > >>Thanks for the input. I will give it some thought. > >> > >>Just a guy sorting things out, > >> > >> > > > >I wonder. I think you're trolling. You slip in and lay some > >flame-bait, it duly raises noise and distraction, then you're all > >penitent about it, and then you do it again, twice so far. I'm not > >convinced by your penitence this time, and there won't be a third > >time. > > > >Keith Addison > >Journey to Forever > >KYOTO Pref., Japan > >http://journeytoforever.org/ > >Biofuel list owner > > > > > > > > > >>Clif > >> > >> > >> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Wow and to think that I was going to use this list only to figure out > >>>>how to titrate WVO correctly. > >>>>At the risk at attracting perhaps merited flames ...... > >>>>Where is the outrage at the coverage of the war in Iraq ? > >>>>Have you heard one positive story on NPR or anywhere else ? > >>>>Where is the outrage at the fine work Michael Moore and numerous others > >>>>are doing at peddling lies ? > >>>>Where is the outrage when fine mothers, sisters, sons and fathers who > >>>>are proud of the service their sons and daughters are offering in the > >>>>Armed Services are not given any voice and one heartbroken mother is > >>>>given weeks of press coverage because she is against the war in Irag ? > >>>>And finally a point that may need some attention by the "Men of God" > >>>>judicatory committee on this list : > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>What exactly do you mean by that? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Where is the outrage at allowing Muslim clerics right here in America to > >>>>daily call for the UTTER destruction of not only Americans who believe > >>>>that Allah may not be the way, but also any other infidels? > >>>> > >>>>All I'm saying is that I for one feel compelled to be very conscious of > >>>>my own "blind spots" as I am chief among those who can stand only by > >>>>grace ..... > >>>> > >>>>Just a thought to further take this list into a land far away from > >>>>renewable energy sources. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>It is not far away from renewable energy sources. I think you should > >>>read this carefully, since it looks as if you haven't already done so: > >>> > >>>http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200 > >>>5-May/000007.html > >>>Or: > >>>http://snipurl.com/gi45 > >>> > >>>Best wishes > >>> > >>>Keith > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>In need of clarity, > >>>>Clif > >>>> > >>>>TarynToo wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Amen Robert! > >>>>> > >>>>> > > > ><snip> _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
