not sure if this was mentioned but has anyone seen the documentary called ENDGAME it is shown for free on google. the author has a website called www.endgamethemovie.com where he has links to all the facts that he referrers to. it shows the roots of fascism up to todays activities its very interesting.
--- On Tue, 5/27/08, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fascists at it again To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Received: Tuesday, May 27, 2008, 9:35 AM Hello Kurt Thanks for the response. But it's still myopic, or at least very one-sided, and it leaves out the essential context, it's a sort of history-free view. For one thing, just about everything you say about Islamofascism is mirrored in the West, particularly in the US. For instance, you say Islam and Islamofascism are morally rigid, or hypermoral. I already mentioned the "End Times" far-right-wing so-called Christian fundamentalists in the US, not at all just a fringe movement there but highly influential, all the way up to the White House, election results and foreign policy. You just don't get any more morally hidebound than that. See eg: <http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg52660.html> Re: [Biofuel] The Rapture Even on a less-extreme level, the religious aspects of the current US election debate involving all three candidates leave the rest of the world bemused. >This thread occurred a few weeks ago, but I owe a response, so here goes. > >First off, Mr. Addison suggests my comments reflect the idea that >Islam is in moral decline. This is not what I meant. In fact, my >post has just the opposite suggestion: Islam, and Islamofascism, >reflect a society that is morally rigid. Perhaps the term >hypermoral could be used. > >As far as Sharia law is concerned, here is what Wikipedia says: >This is true (Sharia law) for the application of the death penalty >for the crimes of adultery and homosexuality, amputations for the >crime of theft, and flogging for fornication or public intoxication. Once again this is a bizarre criticism coming from the US, which has a barbaric attitude to the death penalty: the US executes far more people than any other country, both in total and per population size - more than China does. The US condones and practises torture. The US has the highest prison population in the world, mostly for minor offences that are decriminalised in many other countries. You don't mention my reference to Sharia and Islamic finance, by the way. (And Wikipedia is a lousy source.) >The history of Islam, and Sharia law, is beyond the scope of this >response. Certainly there is much to be celebrated when considering >Islam. Certainly there is, yes. >In the context of modern practices of Sharia law, however, in those >nations that practice a fundamental form of it, like Saudi Arabia >and Iran, I believe Islamofascism is the correct term. These two >countries maintain religious police. I rather expected your two examples, see below. >Women's rights and Sharia law are a particularly troublesome >combination. Check here: >http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/women/story/0,,2278332,00.html >(This article details the difficulties women face in receiving >health care under sharia law.) There are quite a few other articles and studies dealing with the devastation caused in reproductive healthcare worldwide by the primitive US policies on contraception and abortion. >Let's not even talk about female education, and schooling. I think many Muslim women in Muslim countries would not agree with you. >I don't doubt that plenty of scripture exists for the fair treatment >of women in the Quran, however, as practiced, Sharia law seems at >great odds with any form of freedom that westerners are accustomed >to. So does the Patriot Act in the US. And so on, see above. Regarding Saudi Arabia and Iran, first Iran: what, do you think, might the situation be in Iran today if the CIA hadn't staged a coup there in 1953 that ousted the democratically elected Mossadeq and replaced him with the Shah, a brutal Fascist (but he's *our* Fascist)? A lot of Iranians ask that question, they tend to be not exactly very pleased that most Americans don't even know it happened (perhaps many of the same ones who talk about "Islamofascism" now and/or want to bomb Iran into a parking lot). See eg: http://lists.essential.org/pipermail/corp-focus/2003/000158.html We Had a Democracy Once, But You Crushed It By Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman NYT review of Stephen Kinzer's new book, All the Shah's Men: An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/10/books/review/10BASS.html 'All the Shah's Men': Regime Change, Circa 1953 Lots about it in the list archives too: <http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg27969.html> Iran and the Forgotten Anniversary The situation with Saudi Arabia is similar. The US has long been the unquestioning backer of the odious and oppressive Saudi regime, militarily and politically, with active support for the crushing of any domestic dissent or moves towards democracy. Remove US backing from the scene and where would the Saudis be now? The fall of the Shah in Iran and his replacement by a not surprisingly hostile regime left the US without a military presence in the Gulf. I was working on Gulf issues at the time and I watched the US trying to creep up on the forbidden prize - on-the-ground US military presence in Saudi Arabia to counter the loss of military influence in Iran. It didn't happen, beyond the usual "advisors" and so on. Until Gulf War 1, that is, then it happened. The US showed the Saudis satellite photographs of massed Iraqi tanks waiting to invade Saudi Arabia, and in went the US troops to protect all the frightened princelings. But according to Russian satellite photographs taken at the same time there weren't any Iraqi tanks massed on the Saudi border, it was rigged. Is that why April Glaspie told Saddam the US didn't have a problem with his invading Kuwait, to set him up? And so on. Something else Americans tend not to know is that the main gripe of Al Qaeda, for one, far from hating you for your "freedoms", is that your infidel US military is stationed in their holy land and is polluting it, they keep telling you that but you just won't listen. There's a high tide of Islamic fundamentalism and sectarian strife in Iraq these days, but that's only happened since the US invasion and occupation (war crimes both), it wasn't the case under Saddam, though he had to be a tough guy to maintain secular rule considering the crazy borders the European colonists had left him with, cutting communities in half and merging traditional rivals and so on in their usual hamfisted style. (I guess the folks of Ulster for instance can relate to that.) Al Qaeda and Bin Laden are themselves a CIA creation. The current Taliban resurgence in Afghanistan is partly or largely due to the fact that Afghanis find life under the Taliban preferable to the lawlessness they've suffered under the bunch of warlords, gangsters, criminals and heroin kingpins installed following the US invasion. See eg: http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/1594 The US has Returned Fundamentalism to Afghanistan In many places resorting to fundamentalist Islam is a response to foreign, mainly US, interference. And, indeed, so on. It seems to be a little hard to find much "Islamofascism" that's short of a US role in creating or maintaining it. In fact the "Islamo" bit seems superfluous: the US has a long and ugly history of propping up Fascist regimes all over the world, up to now, no matter what church they go to. As a counter to American views on Islamofascism, Muslims talk of the Islamophobes and "neo-Crusaders" in Washington. Washington's neo-Crusaders are certainly Fascists. I'm not blaming the US for all the world's ills (though that's a popular pastime these days), but you're certainly in no position to point fingers like you're doing when your own backyard's in such a mess, sad to say. Best Keith > > Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 06:14:49 +0900> To: >biofuel@sustainablelists.org> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fascists at it again> > Hello Kurt> > >I am >too lazy to double check myself!> > Lazier than that I think, >totally fast asleep maybe. You honestly > think (?) Islam is an idea >that's in a moral decline? LOL!> > >How else could you define a >government that recognizes, and > >enforces, Sharia Law?> > Wise?> > >http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19818.htm> >Islamic >Finance, by Loretta Napoleoni, 26/04/08 "ICH" -- -- >Islamic > >finance has become the fastest-growing, most dynamic >sector of > >global finance. Every Western-style financial product >has its > >sharia, i.e. Islamic law, compliant instrument: >microfinance, > >mortgages, oil and gas exploration, bridge >building, even > >sponsorship of sporting events. Islamic finance is >innovative, > >flexible, and potentially very profitable. "Operating >in 70 > >countries with about $500bn in assets, it is poised to >expand > >geometrically." With more than one billion Muslims eager >to support > >it, analysts project that this system will soon manage >approximately > >4 percent of the world economy, equivalent to $1 >trillion in assets. > >Such figures explain the eagerness of Western >banks to tap into > >sharia financial services. Citigroup, along >with many other Western > >banking retailers, have opened Islamic >branches in Muslim countries. > >[more]> > How would you define a >government that's married to militarism and > violence on the one >hand and chasing the "End Times" Armageddon on > the other?> > >Laziness and sloppy, blinkered thinking is not welcome here. If >you > can't do better than this blind and prejudiced crap then go >away.> > Keith> > > >Fascism is repeatedly defined as "mass >movements" concerned with > >ideas of religious, cultural, ethnic, >or national implications. > >Fascism is founded in the idea that one >or more of these ideas is in > >a moral decline, and therefore the >state needs to usurp individual > >power in order to "right the >ship".> >> >This seems to me to be exactly what is occurring in >Saudia Arabia, > >Iran, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Indonesia, Syria, >Yemen, Pakistan, to > >name a few. The term "islamo-fascism" seems >to me to be > >extraordinarily appropriate. Hitler and Mussolini >created a > >"nationalistic" version of fascism. Ahmadinejad, for >instance, in > >Iran is actively creating a "religious" >version. > >> >How else could you define a government that >recognizes, and > >enforces, Sharia Law?> >> >I agree that few >people on the street truly understand the definiton > >of fascism, >and therefore the term is typically used as a default > >perjorative >to describe those governments in opposition to the US > >government. >However, just because the term is not well understood > >does not >make its correct use inappropriate.> >> >As a side note, I am not >sure if the countries I listed all enforce > >Sharia Law. I >apologize if I got that information incorrect. I am > >too lazy to >double check myself!> >> >I do agree that the US is slipping into a >nationalistic version of > >fascism. This is why it is important to >celebrate other country's > >successes, to show that the US way is >not always the best, or right > >way.> >> >Kurt> Date: Sun, 4 May >2008 21:28:30 -0700> From: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: > >sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org> Subject: Re: >[Biofuel] > >Fascists at it again> > ....The Fascist State organizes >the nation, > >but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the >individual; the > >latter is deprived of all useless and possibly >harmful freedom, but > >retains what is essential; the deciding >power in this question > >cannot be the individual, but the State >alone.... > --- Benito > >Mussolini> > The fascist rat bags who >think themselves our betters > >are now promoting their pharma >income. The state is a myth. > >Mussolini got what all good fascists >deserve. Basically these people > >will rule you into the ground if >you let them> > Chip Mefford > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> Was that >fascist as in /extreme/ > >nationalism?> Or is that fascist as in >pejorative label applied> to > >things we don't like, without any >real definition> or meaning?> >> > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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