modern? see Roman symbol http://www.feastofhateandfear.com/images/fasci8_2.jpg Chris Burck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: what are you smoking, kurt? there are lots of fine points and subtleties when studying history, most especially comparative political history. it's really best to study, observe, think about, and discuss these things deliberately, objectively, and with a clear head. the words islam and fascism just don't go together. period. simply because you can string a bunch of letters together in a heretofore unknown sequence does not, for all that they may tug at your amygdala, mean you are reflecting any kind of reality. at least not one that matters to ordinary adults (theodore geisel notwithstanding). fascism is a thoroughly modern phenomenon, completely inseparable from industrial, capitalist society. to attempt to understand so-called sharia and wahabi islam one must explore what hdppened when, and in what context. whem doing so, we find that so-called "wahabism" began well before the modernization of the arabian peninsula. it was co-opted in its earliest phase by the house of saud as a means of consolidating power, and with a quite clear understanding of the distinction between spiritual and temporal authority (i.e. the saudi kingdom was not nor is a theocracy). the more contempory manifestations, such as the islamic brotherhood and the islamic revolutionaries in iran are reactions, explicitly so, to centuries-long western political and economic subjugation (contrast this with the so-called "gay agenda," just one of the many vaporous internal threats that the american crypto-fascist right so love to monger). not all things zealous, brutal or intolerant are fascist. the only possible purpose for coining a term such as islamo-fascist, is to associate islam with hitler and genocide in the mind of the target audience. once this association is drawn, well, there's no end to the possibilities.
On 5/26/08, Kurt Schasker wrote: > > This thread occurred a few weeks ago, but I owe a response, so here goes. > > First off, Mr. Addison suggests my comments reflect the idea that Islam is > in moral decline. This is not what I meant. In fact, my post has just the > opposite suggestion: Islam, and Islamofascism, reflect a society that is > morally rigid. Perhaps the term hypermoral could be used. > > As far as Sharia law is concerned, here is what Wikipedia says: This is > true (Sharia law) for the application of the death penalty for the crimes of > adultery and homosexuality, amputations for the crime of theft, and flogging > for fornication or public intoxication. > > The history of Islam, and Sharia law, is beyond the scope of this response. > Certainly there is much to be celebrated when considering Islam. In the > context of modern practices of Sharia law, however, in those nations that > practice a fundamental form of it, like Saudi Arabia and Iran, I believe > Islamofascism is the correct term. These two countries maintain religious > police. > > Women's rights and Sharia law are a particularly troublesome combination. > Check here: > http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/women/story/0,,2278332,00.html (This > article details the difficulties women face in receiving health care under > sharia law.) Let's not even talk about female education, and schooling. > > I don't doubt that plenty of scripture exists for the fair treatment of > women in the Quran, however, as practiced, Sharia law seems at great odds > with any form of freedom that westerners are accustomed to. > Date: Wed, 7 > May 2008 06:14:49 +0900> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org> From: > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fascists at it again> > > Hello Kurt> > >I am too lazy to double check myself!> > Lazier than that I > think, totally fast asleep maybe. You honestly > think (?) Islam is an idea > that's in a moral decline? LOL!> > >How else could you define a government > that recognizes, and > >enforces, Sharia Law?> > Wise?> > > http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19818.htm> >Islamic Finance, > by Loretta Napoleoni, 26/04/08 "ICH" -- -- Islamic > >finance has become the > fastest-growing, most dynamic sector of > >global finance. Every > Western-style financial product has its > >sharia, i.e. Islamic law, > compliant instrument: microfinance, > >mortgages, oil and gas exploration, > bridge building, even > >sponsorship of sporting events. Islamic finance is > innovative, > >flexible, and potentially very profitable. "Operating in 70 > >>countries with about $500bn in assets, it is poised to expand > >>geometrically." With more than one billion Muslims eager to support > >it, > analysts project that this system will soon manage approximately > >4 > percent of the world economy, equivalent to $1 trillion in assets. > >Such > figures explain the eagerness of Western banks to tap into > >sharia > financial services. Citigroup, along with many other Western > >banking > retailers, have opened Islamic branches in Muslim countries. > >[more]> > > How would you define a government that's married to militarism and > > violence on the one hand and chasing the "End Times" Armageddon on > the > other?> > Laziness and sloppy, blinkered thinking is not welcome here. If > you > can't do better than this blind and prejudiced crap then go away.> > > Keith> > > >Fascism is repeatedly defined as "mass movements" concerned with >> >ideas of religious, cultural, ethnic, or national implications. > >>Fascism is founded in the idea that one or more of these ideas is in > >a > moral decline, and therefore the state needs to usurp individual > >power in > order to "right the ship".> >> >This seems to me to be exactly what is > occurring in Saudia Arabia, > >Iran, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Indonesia, > Syria, Yemen, Pakistan, to > >name a few. The term "islamo-fascism" seems to > me to be > >extraordinarily appropriate. Hitler and Mussolini created a > >>"nationalistic" version of fascism. Ahmadinejad, for instance, in > >Iran > is actively creating a "religious" version. > >> >How else could you define > a government that recognizes, and > >enforces, Sharia Law?> >> >I agree that > few people on the street truly understand the definiton > >of fascism, and > therefore the term is typically used as a default > >perjorative to describe > those governments in opposition to the US > >government. However, just > because the term is not well understood > >does not make its correct use > inappropriate.> >> >As a side note, I am not sure if the countries I listed > all enforce > >Sharia Law. I apologize if I got that information incorrect. > I am > >too lazy to double check myself!> >> >I do agree that the US is > slipping into a nationalistic version of > >fascism. This is why it is > important to celebrate other country's > >successes, to show that the US way > is not always the best, or right > >way.> >> >Kurt> Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 > 21:28:30 -0700> From: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: > >>sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] > >>Fascists at it again> > ....The Fascist State organizes the nation, > >but > leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the > >latter is > deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but > >retains what is > essential; the deciding power in this question > >cannot be the individual, > but the State alone.... > --- Benito > >Mussolini> > The fascist rat bags > who think themselves our betters > >are now promoting their pharma income. > The state is a myth. > >Mussolini got what all good fascists deserve. > Basically these people > >will rule you into the ground if you let them> > > Chip Mefford > > wrote:> Was that fascist as in /extreme/ > >>nationalism?> Or is that fascist as in pejorative label applied> to > >>things we don't like, without any real definition> or meaning?> >> > > > _______________________________________________> Biofuel mailing list> > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel> > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html> > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 > messages):> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > _________________________________________________________________ > Give to a good cause with every e-mail. 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