2009/8/14 Roy Wallace <waldo000...@gmail.com>: > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Martin > Koppenhoefer<dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote: >> 2009/8/14 Roy Wallace <waldo000...@gmail.com>: >> >> but this is not real "map"-information but it is legal information you >> could also get from different sources. If a way is legally a cycleway, >> all the laws and implications in that county apply automatically. > > highway=cycleway (and footway) has inconsistent implications. This is > the problem, and this occurs even within areas with the same law. I > think this makes cycleway an inherently bad tag (as currently used).
in Italy (and probably in Germany more or less as well) we use highway=cycleway if there is a cycleway-sign (blue with white bike). Other ways are not cycleways, but could get bicycle=yes. > You suggest we use the wiki to supplement the database - that's fine, Yes. This is somehow already done by "defining" possible meanings of the tags. I wrote that legal implications within a certain country could be documented in the wiki, so it's not necessary to tag them all explicitly (like motorcar=no, foot=no on cycleways). This is actually already done, e.g. in the German wiki pages. It's theoretically no problem to tell in which country a way is, just by the map data, as long as we have precise borders (might require some preprocessing though). > BUT within the database highway=cycleway must mean the same thing as > highway=cycleway. That's called consistency. Putting extra stuff in > the wiki *cannot* give the database consistency. the problem is, that real world is not consistent across borders. If you say: all ways that are marked as cycleways (sign or painted on the street) are to tag as cycleways, this will mean different implicit access-tags in different countries. I can't see a real problem here though. It would be nice to have for the main features a per-country-list the transcripts local legislation in OSM (define default-presets). Cases not according to those presets would be tagged explicitly. > You make the point that we should be entering "real map-information" > in the database. I agree, and interpret this as meaning the database > should represent the situation "on the ground" (and not necessarily > aim to capture also the situation "in the law books" - unless this can > be done in a separate namespace, e.g. law:*=*, as others have > suggested). well, I'm not a pure "on the ground"-guy, I think what ever information you figure out and could potentially be useful I encourage to put into the database. But tagging the default law-situation for every single way seems exaggerated to me - hence we use classification and xy=designated to describe with one or two tags a series of implications for ways. Maybe there is a slight language problem though: many of the tags are proposed by non-native speakers. I rember the discussion about path on the German ML and someone said "gewidmet" (I think in Engl. "dedicated", it is in this context the process of legally assigning a road class to a way) translates to "designated" and maybe therefore it's like this now. If you look in a common Engl-German dictionary you'll find several not congruent translations: http://dict.leo.org/?lp=ende&from=fx3&search=designated cheers, Martin _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
