Since I'm using Potlatch to edit the map, I start the tagging of a walking
path/road etc. by selecting the presets for the "walking man". Then, I
select by the surface and permissibility, which for a peds only, gravel, 4ft
wide public path ends up as higway=track and surface=gravel. But isn't
highway=footway the preferred tagging for this?
On May 30, 2010 12:03 PM, <talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: On the ground rule on the wiki (andrzej zaborowski)
2. Re: Questions regarding the mapping of hiking trails
(Sami Dalouche)
3. Re: On the ground rule on the wiki (Anthony)
4. Re: On the ground rule on the wiki (John Smith)
5. Re: On the ground rule on the wiki (John Smith)
6. Re: On the ground rule on the wiki (Anthony)
7. Re: Cloudmade routing issue (Anton Popov)
8. Re: On the ground rule on the wiki (Mikel Maron)
9. Re: On the ground rule on the wiki (Ulf Lamping)
10. Re: On the ground rule on the wiki (Rory McCann)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 15:12:31 +0200
From: andrzej zaborowski <balr...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki
To: John Smith <deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com>
Cc: Nathan Edgars II <nerou...@gmail.com>, talk@openstreetmap.org
Message-ID:
<aanlktilaaaaohsytx2ig11mszac3idohubwcetxfm...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On 30 May 2010 09:40, John Smith <deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 30 May 2010 15:39, Anthony <o...@inbox.org> wrote:
>> "If the dispute can not be resolved through discussion, then the simple
>> default rule is that whatever name, designation, etc are used by the
people
>> on the ground at that location are used in the non-localized tags."
>
> Isn't that kinda asking for an edit war where there is disputed
> territory with different names by different languages possibly in
> multiple languages?
Why? By my reading it is to quiet such edit wars, so the exact
opposite. See how this rule is applied in Belgium with streets having
three names and all three printed on street signs.
Cheers
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 09:16:34 -0400
From: Sami Dalouche <sko...@free.fr>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Questions regarding the mapping of hiking
trails
To: j...@jfeldredge.com
Cc: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list <talk@openstreetmap.org>
Message-ID: <1275225394.12673.0.ca...@samxps>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Sun, 2010-05-30 at 03:21 +0000, John F. Eldredge wrote:
> Also, the name "Van Hoevenburg Trail" doesn't necessarily mean that it
passes through the Van Hoevenburg Property. That might be the name of the
current land-owner, the name of a former land-owner, or simply the name of
some notable person whom the trail was named after.
>
thanks for your answers.
By "property", I was referring to the key/value pairs to tag ways, not
anything else...
Sami Dalouche
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 09:17:29 -0400
From: Anthony <o...@inbox.org>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki
To: John Smith <deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com>
Cc: Nathan Edgars II <nerou...@gmail.com>, talk@openstreetmap.org
Message-ID:
<aanlktimnlbla3decnicm3zum8ttrb-oyz8ey1jub3...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 3:40 AM, John Smith <deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com
>wrote:
> On 30 May 2010 15:39, Anthony <o...@inbox.org> wrote:
> > "If the dispute can not be resolved through discussion, then the simple
> > default rule is that whatever name, designation, etc are used by the
> people
> > on the ground at that location are used in the non-localized tags."
>
> Isn't that kinda asking for an edit war where there is disputed
> territory with different names by different languages possibly in
> multiple languages?
>
>From what I can tell, it was actually the solution to such an edit war.
How
"map what the people on the ground say" turned into "map what's on the
ground", I can't figure out.
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 23:19:45 +1000
From: John Smith <deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki
To: Anthony <o...@inbox.org>
Cc: Nathan Edgars II <nerou...@gmail.com>, talk@openstreetmap.org
Message-ID:
<aanlktin2px9v6wk8gc9xfvslt6n-dutmnwfvidm52...@mail.gmail.com>
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On 30 May 2010 23:17, Anthony <o...@inbox.org> wrote:
> From what I can tell, it was actually the solution to such an edit war.
How
> "map what the people on the ground say" turned into "map what's on the
> ground", I can't figure out.
Seems like it would logically go the other way round, from map what
was on the ground to map what people on the ground say...
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 23:26:30 +1000
From: John Smith <deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki
To: andrzej zaborowski <balr...@gmail.com>
Cc: Nathan Edgars II <nerou...@gmail.com>, talk@openstreetmap.org
Message-ID:
<aanlktimmptyogix7sd9sv13ztjn6fy1msmzvsiqj2...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On 30 May 2010 23:12, andrzej zaborowski <balr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why? By my reading it is to quiet such edit wars, so the exact
Why... simple, you can't verify what is in someone's brain as true, at
best you get a consensus, but that may be limited in scope, I guess it
comes down to the importance of the object being mapped.
> opposite. See how this rule is applied in Belgium with streets having
> three names and all three printed on street signs.
Ok so it works some times for some places, may not be applicable to
all situations leaving things up to not being verifiable.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 09:28:06 -0400
From: Anthony <o...@inbox.org>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki
To: John Smith <deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com>
Cc: Nathan Edgars II <nerou...@gmail.com>, talk@openstreetmap.org
Message-ID:
<aanlktikii24oid8dwlk1qc9irere-u6hj56v_3xxx...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 9:19 AM, John Smith <deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com
>wrote:
> On 30 May 2010 23:17, Anthony <o...@inbox.org> wrote:
> > From what I can tell, it was actually the solution to such an edit war.
> How
> > "map what the people on the ground say" turned into "map what's on the
> > ground", I can't figure out.
>
> Seems like it would logically go the other way round, from map what
> was on the ground to map what people on the ground say...
>
I'm not sure what it means to "logically go" one way or the other, but the
earliest reference I can find to any sort of "on the ground rule" is
November/December 2007, and it's that one quoted at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes . If you can find an earlier
one I'd be quite interested.
In any case, more important than the etymology of the phrase "map what's on
the ground" is what it means and whether or not it's good advice. In terms
of its use in excluding verifiable information I think it is quite
problematic. When a route isn't written "on the ground" that's exactly when
it's most useful to have it identified in a map.
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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 17:05:40 +0300
From: Anton Popov <apo...@cloudmade.com>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Cloudmade routing issue
To: Nathan Edgars II <nerou...@gmail.com>
Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
Message-ID:
<aanlktiko5mwgs8cai4aisa6oeaf3t9kfjlajt3ebz...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hello Nathan,
This is CM navigation engine bug. It's already in the most priority issues
list, but still I cannot guarantee the ETA.
Sorry for your feedback response delay - there's might be some technical
problems, I will try to check that.
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Nathan Edgars II <nerou...@gmail.com>wrote:
> I know this isn't the Cloudmade list, but a recent thread here got
> some results. I used the feedback link but never got a response.
>
> If you go to
>
http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=40.257259&lng=-74.289401&zoom=16&directions=40.2545894931206,-74.28884267807007,40.256497279719156,-74.29014086723328,40.25585043964603,-74.29341316223145&travel=car&styleId=1&opened_tab=1
> and remove destination point B, it changes to a much longer route. I
> believe all the turn restrictions are correct (this is a jughandle,
> where you exit right to turn left), but the routing engine doesn't
> like to use it. Can someone make sure they're aware of it?
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
--
Best regards,
Popov Anton.
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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 10:09:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mikel Maron <mikel_ma...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki
To: Nathan Edgars II <nerou...@gmail.com>, talk@openstreetmap.org
Message-ID: <611444.90486...@web56502.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Right now, the only mention of the "on the ground" rule on the wiki is
> here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes#On_the_Ground_Rule
> Should a separate page be created about how it applies more generally?
The intention of us devising the On the Ground rule was only for Dispute
resolution, originally in response to the situation in Cyprus.
It really shouldn't be taken as a more general rule. Just for instance,
localised names of places are not very often found on the ground.
-Mikel
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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 19:34:00 +0200
From: Ulf Lamping <ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Message-ID: <4c02a188.5010...@googlemail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Am 30.05.2010 19:09, schrieb Mikel Maron:
>
> > Right now, the only mention of the "on the ground" rule on the wiki is
>> here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes#On_the_Ground_Rule
> > Should a separate page be created about how it applies more generally?
>
> The intention of us devising the On the Ground rule was only for Dispute
> resolution, originally in response to the situation in Cyprus.
>
> It really shouldn't be taken as a more general rule. Just for instance,
> localised names of places are not very often found on the ground.
+1
Regards, ULFL
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 20:01:44 +0100
From: Rory McCann <r...@technomancy.org>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki
To: andrzej zaborowski <balr...@gmail.com>
Cc: Nathan Edgars II <nerou...@gmail.com>, talk@openstreetmap.org
Message-ID: <4c02b618.7080...@technomancy.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
On 30/05/10 14:12, andrzej zaborowski wrote:
> On 30 May 2010 09:40, John Smith <deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 30 May 2010 15:39, Anthony <o...@inbox.org> wrote:
>>> "If the dispute can not be resolved through discussion, then the simple
>>> default rule is that whatever name, designation, etc are used by the
people
>>> on the ground at that location are used in the non-localized tags."
>>
>> Isn't that kinda asking for an edit war where there is disputed
>> territory with different names by different languages possibly in
>> multiple languages?
>
> Why? By my reading it is to quiet such edit wars, so the exact
> opposite. See how this rule is applied in Belgium with streets having
> three names and all three printed on street signs.
Or Ireland, which has the Irish (name:ga) and English names on all signs.
I found a road today (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/3789374)
that has 2 signs across the road from each other, both have the same
English name ("Chancery Place"), but each has a different Irish name
("Pl?s Seansaire" vs "Pl?s na Seansaireachta"). I had to make an
educated guess based on how new each sign was.
Rory
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