David Miller wrote: > Your attitude might be falling back to treating the > New Testament and the commandments as law. > Based upon some of your other comments, you > might be looking too much at works as having > efficacy for justification.
Izzy wrote: > That is a strange thing to say. James said, "You see > that a man is justified by works, and not by faith > alone." (James 2:24 NAS) ... You share many good verses about how we ought to DO what Christ taught. Amen to that. But the point of my comment is that when a person trusts in his DOING, then that frustrates grace and faith. Paul wrote: "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." (Gal 2:21) In the passage that James wrote above (2:24), he was addressing those who say that salvation is by grace through faith ALONE. He was showing how that true faith has works with it, and therefore, works justify a person WHEN EMINATING FROM FAITH. The problem is that there are works that can eminate from a person DOING, and there are works that can eminate from faith. Paul hits the nail on the head in explaining how we trust in Christ, not our works, for justification before God. Nevertheless, the little spoken about assumption in his teaching is that faith will be followed with good works. The value of his teaching is that salvation is not by the law. If salvation were by works alone, then the law would bring salvation, provided we could keep it. In Paul's theology, the law was given to show our sinful nature, so that we would see our need for a Savior, then place faith in Jesus Christ so that we might be justified by faith. Galatians is a good book for giving an example of believers who started out being justified by faith, but then went to the law to complete their sanctification. I suspect the dynamics there might be involved somewhat with your approach to sanctification. I don't think you go as far as the Galatians, because I think some of them were giving merit to circumcision and the like, but the basic idea of trusting in works rather than Christ might be what is frustrating your ability to maintain a walk of holiness. Izzy wrote: > why would we NOT consider obeying the > law as a requirement, just the same? The context of your statement here has some problems for me, so I cannot express full agreement. I do believe that we should obey, and that Christ expects us to obey. But the context in which you say this implies that without the obedience of the law, there cannot be justification. Such a view clearly implies trust in works, which results in a covenant of law with God rather than a covenant of grace. Paul spoke of the law as being a schoolmaster. I think that this schoolmaster shows us what is expected. That way, when the way of grace opens up to us, we can walk in obedience without pride. We can view the good works that come from our life as being of Christ and not of ourselves. This breeds humility in our lives. This is a spiritual issue that you will need to pray about. The concept must be understood in the heart and then the head. I think you are very close to getting the right perspective. I'm not discouraging you from recognizing that obedience and good works should be expected in the life of the believer. This is true. But make sure that you see that faith in Christ is the basis for your justification, even BEFORE good works follow. The good works will follow, but the justification in God's eyes happen before the good works. Therefore, you are not earning salvation, but accepting it as a free gift, and then expecting Christ to live through you. This proper perspective is what allows faith to operate within you, which then brings to power of the Holy Spirit and his leading, so that you can walk in the Spirit and not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Izzy wrote: > My BIG question is: At what point does such > flagrant disregard for obeying God's commandments > cause us to lose our salvation? Ever? I can't help > but think so!!! Yes, I agree with you here. Izzy wrote: > By the way, David, what is your definition of the > "Kingdom of God"? Just wondering. The Kingdom of God is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. It is something we can enter into now by faith, and it is also something that comes later in a literal sense, when Jesus establishes his kingdom on the earth. The Kingdom of God is the promised land which Israel entered. It is that land flowing with milk and honey, but which also must be conquered through spiritual warfare. It should not be completely equated with the concept of salvation, although it is certainly related to it. The Israelites were saved when they crossed the Red Sea, but they did not enter the promised land until later. Their crossing of the Red Sea illustrates salvation from sin (their slavery in Egypt, the world), and their crossing of the Jordan River indicates their entering the Kingdom of God and making the kingdoms of this world the Kingdom of God. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
