Izzy wrote: > I can only say that I appreciate your constant insistence > on living without sin, because you are the only person > I have EVER encountered who takes that approach.
Please understand that I am not the only one who believes like this. There are millions of people who believe like this. Did you read the little book that John Wesley wrote on this? I provided a link to it in a previous e-mail. The Methodists and Wesleyan groups believe in Christian perfection, as a matter of church doctrine, but like many denominations, the actual experience of it among those in the congregation is somewhat minimal (with regard to the United Methodist denomination, but not so much so with the Wesleyans who defined themselves from other Methodists because of their greater emphasis on Wesley's holiness doctrine). Note that the Nazarene Christian denomination also believes in this kind of holiness, which they define as a second work of grace called sanctification. Charles Finney within the Presbyterian denomination taught it also, but his emphasis upon free will within a Calvinist sect made him only popular in his day. Not too many in that denomination today accept Finney's teachings. Most of Finney adherents are from other groups, such as those in the moral government theology camp of Olson. Then many of the Pentecostal denominations that arose at the beginning of the twentieth century believed it also, and today there are many Pentecostal Holiness groups that believe and teach this kind of holiness. One of the reasons I am so againt denominationalism is because it creates the situation like this whereby if you are part of a denomination, the kind of good teaching you get is skewed toward certain teachings, and other teachings are eliminated. You say that I am the only person that you have ever encountered who takes this approach, but if you had belonged to a different denomination, that would not have been the case. Consider that Glenn and my background is very different, because I have heard grace, grace, grace all my life and next to nothing about repentance. Glenn's background taught him repent, repent, repent and very little about grace. As a result, we tend to flip flop on this issue whereby Glenn wants to emphasize grace over everything else and does not see that it too can be out of balance, just like an overemphasis on works. If there were no denominations, then those within the body of Christ who taught these things would be teaching more people and a balanced perspective would occur. Instead of just having a Paul - justified by faith not works camp - and a James - justified by works not faith alone camp, we would have both teachings among us and a balanced perspective about the subject. Izzy wrote: > What surprises me the most is the negative responses > you receive--even attacks--for your stance. How can > a Christian object to someone preaching holiness??? > How can anyone desire holiness too much??? Excellent points, Izzy. I have found that such reactions help to make my case, because the reactions do get so ridiculous that the truth of what I teach becomes very obvious. Izzy wrote: > Although I am far from holy, my heart is continually grieved > by that fact, and I am starved for a way out of sin in my own > life. Others may consider my sins to be innocuous enough, > but to me they are glaring and ugly (and to Him also, I know!). I encourage you to follow the teaching in James 4 concerning repentance. I spend time in prayer, looking at my sin the way God sees it. I ask God to show me its ugliness. I weep over my sin. This might take place over one hour, or it might be days or weeks. But I humble myself over it until the Lord lifts me up. When the Lord lifts me up, I can arise to a new life, never to go back to any practice of the old man. Izzy wrote: > I once thought that getting baptized, or getting filled > with the Holy Spirit, would be the cure; but the flesh > remains and takes over too often. This is described in Romans 7. Your attitude might be falling back to treating the New Testament and the commandments as law. Based upon some of your other comments, you might be looking too much at works as having efficacy for justification. I was set free from what you describe here by reading three chapters in Romans, chapters 6, 7, and 8. I read and re-read these three chapters over and over again, as the Holy Spirit was teaching it to me inside and out. When I got the message being conveyed in these chapters down in my heart, in my spirit, not just in my head, the power of the flesh was gone. I began to walk in the Spirit. The flesh is still there, but its strength is gone. Note that the law gives the sin principle of the flesh its strength. You must cut yourself off from the law in order to walk in the Spirit, and when you do that, you will find that the flesh does not have the strength that it once had. One other comment that might help you. Perhaps you are familiar with some of the teachings in charismatic circles about our confession, about how death and life is in the power of the tongue. A lot of people make fun of the teaching, and criticize it as some kind of denial of reality, but there is much truth to these teachings. Charismatics typically apply the teaching to receiving healing, but it also applies to this subject of victory over sin. If you constantly confess with your mouth that you are a sinner and that you sin many times, even when you are not aware of it, it will be impossible for you to walk holy. Your mouth locates your faith, and you will have what you say, which is that you are a sinner. There is a mock humility, known as self abasement, when you confess that you sin when you have not. All confession of sin must be specific and true to have efficacy for our spiritual life. We must confess when we have sinned, and we must work out a sorrowful repentance when we sin. Nevertheless, we also must believe the good news, that Jesus Christ died for our sins, and that he was manifested to take away our sins. Well, has he taken away our sins or not? If he has, why then would anyone say that they still have sin? For faith to work in this area and bring about the holiness described in Scripture, the confession of our mouth must line up with what God's Word says about us, and not what our past experience says about us. This principle is central for a person to be able to change. If this is not understood and not put into practice, then change is impossible. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
