On 16 Jul 2008, at 14:38, Chet Farmer wrote:
On Jul 16, 2008, at 6:10 AM, Scott Likens wrote:
I'll certainly agree with that. Getting mongrel working with
mod_proxy was essentially an exercise in Google and reading blogs.
<snip>
Yes. And, frankly, Ruby + gems on most Linux distros is in such a
state that I end up maintaining my own Ruby install from source.
Given the pain of the recent security holes (for example), I find
that this is actually driving me to think I should can it and go
for the same suite of PHP apps as everyone else.
I will agree with that, as Debian Etch currently has Ruby 1.8.4(2?
i forget) with Rubygems 0.92. However is that Ruby's problem? or
the Linux distribution you chose?
It's definitely Ruby's problem if PHP, Perl, Python, etc., are all
running fine out of the box.
I'd just like to put in a vote for not Ruby's problem here. I've never
had any trouble deploying rails applications. I used to be a mod_perl
hacker and that was much, much harder to set up and keep going.
The only difference, in my view, is that Rails isn't a commodity
solution yet. You can't easily buy some Rails and you don't get an
option on the Ubuntu disc to install a good starting Rails setup. A
Rails app needs a port, I suppose, so you can't really run one unless
you have your own box and it's really not something you should bother
with if you just want your blog to be fashionably served.
If you have some reason to want Apache as your front end, you have to
know how to proxy to another port. The documentation for that is here:
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_proxy.html
and includes straightforward cut and paste configuration along with
some very useful warnings. I don't know anything about mod_rails, but
I suspect that unless you want to get fancy with the apache lifecycle,
you don't need that much integration. Nginx is a much better front end
anyway: fast and simple. There's an excellent cargo config here:
http://brainspl.at/articles/2006/09/12/new-nginx-conf-with-rails-caching
and some thorough benchmarking here:
http://blog.kovyrin.net/2006/08/28/ruby-performance-results/
I've found it perfectly straightforward to set up typo (or radiant, or
mephisto: I have sites running on each) using mongrel_cluster,
capistrano and an nginx front end. The only things I had to compile
were nginx and sphinx. Everything else is apt-gettable (and I think
now nginx is too). I use three application servers and one database
server and deliver over 100,000 pages a day with typically about a
quarter load. It scales well enough for me and it's over two years
since the last boot. I certainly couldn't say that when I was
desperately propping up 100MB apache processes.
Here, you're defaulting back to a knee-jerk defense of what is
clearly your pet language. That has no place here. Compared to LAMP-
stack stuff, RoR applications are much harder to set up and deploy.
They require a totally different approach, and that approach is very
poorly documented. This isn't a controversial statement.
The documentation is fine. The only problem is that there is no single
orthodox solution. I see that as a strength, but it does mean that
some expertise is required to choose your recipe. You (Chet) are right
in the sense that for the beginner, a working typo blog is probably
not as easy to get to as a working php-based blog. For anyone who
knows what they're doing there's really no difference and the rails
model is much easier to maintain.
Most of this is general to rails so it's also worth mentioning that
Frédéric is very diligent and responsive and the software is good. He
deserves more appreciation, i think.
best,
will
Here, you're defaulting back to a knee-jerk defense of what is
clearly your pet language. That has no place here. Compared to LAMP-
stack stuff, RoR applications are much harder to set up and deploy.
They require a totally different approach, and that approach is very
poorly documented. This isn't a controversial statement.
---
"Don't let your mongoose get cold or dirty, or it will die."
(Animals as Friends and How to Keep Them, by Shaw & Fisher, Dent 1939)
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