The current Wikipedia article, which has been
stable for at least a few weeks, seems quite good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Natural-born-citizen_clause&oldid=503057261
Jojo is stating his personal or collective
opinion as if it were established fact.
From the article, from the Congressional Research Service:
The weight of legal and historical authority
indicates that the term natural born citizen
would mean a person who is entitled to U.S.
citizenship by birth or at birth, either by
being born in the United States and under its
jurisdiction, even those born to alien parents;
by being born abroad to U.S. citizen-parents; or
by being born in other situations meeting legal
requirements for U.S. citizenship at birth.
Such term, however, would not include a person
who was not a U.S. citizen by birth or at birth,
and who was thus born an alien required to go
through the legal process of naturalization to become a U.S. citizen.[1]
There is no contrary legal authority of any weight.
Attempting to challenge the Presidency through
this means is almost certainly doomed. To
accomplish it with Obama, a whole series of hurdles must be cleared.
1. Establish that the Hawaii Birth Certificate is
fraudulent. A series of speculative "how comes"
won't cut it. Mere mystery won't cut it. That
birth certificate establishes the legal
situation, until and unless it is *proven* to be
fraudulent. Tough road to hoe. But people who
generate lots of hot air can sometimes convince
others, especially those looking for a reason to
dump Obama, who makes some people uncomfortable.
Maybe it's the cologne he uses. Nah, they haven't
gotten that close to him (fortunately). Must be
something about the way he looks.
Or it's that he's a SOCIALIST COMMUNIST PINKO
MUSLIM. Yeah, Muslim. That's it. Wants to force
decent American women to wear those tents, even
if it's hot. He just pretended to have Bin Laden
taken out, Bin Laden has been taken to a Safe
Place. Probably Area 51. Yeah, that's it. Desert.
Bin Laden would love it there.
2. Show, in a binding legal process, that Obama
was born outside the United States to
non-citizens. The most solid interpretation of
the law, though it hasn't been tested, to my
knowledge, is that if a person has the
*birthright* to citizenship, they are
"natural-born." I.e., citizens by right of birth.
So if his mother is a citizen, if he can
establish and obtain proof of citizenship, such
as a passport or other document, simply by
showing the fact of birth as it was, he's a "natural-born citizen."
3. Then it would probably take one of two things
to accomplish the nullification of the election.
The first would be Supreme Court action. Note
that even if it were found that Obama had been
ineligible, the Court could easily decide that
the time to challenge this would have been before
Congress ratified and accepted the result of the
election. The other procedure would be through
impeachment, though being a victim of a
fraudulent birth certification, unless Obama were
shown to be complicit, is not a "high crime and
misdemeanor." Still, Congress could decide.
4. And, if you jump through all these hoops, you
end up with Biden as President, or whoever is VP
at the time. You really want to waste your time
and our time with this? Why? See above. Probably
"Muslim." I wish. But he's not, not formally.
Informally, well, I know a Christian apologist,
very active defending the faith, who happens to
know what "muslim" means and who says, at least
privately, "Of course I'm muslim."
I have two children who are citizens by right of
parentage, but not of birth, because they were
not born to me and my ex-wife, they were born in
China and Africa, to non-citizen parents. They
became citizens, by law, upon entry into the U.S.
in our custody as adoptive parents. They would
not be eligible to become President of the U.S.,
under the Constitution as it stands.
However, suppose I travel with my wife, we are
both citizens, and she unexpectedly gives birth,
outside the U.S. Or even expectedly. In a country
which grants citizenship by location of birth. We
come back to the U.S. Our child will be easily
admitted, there would be, at most, some
paperwork. There is no "naturalization" process
in this case. There is not an action that
establishes citizenship after the fact of birth.
In the Obama case, *if the birth certificate is
fraudulent* and Obama was born outside the United
States, he might still be a "natural-born" U.S.
citizen if he acquired citizenhip by right of
birth rather than by naturalization, as would
appear to be routine under the circumstances of
Obama's parentage. A smokescreen argument is
raised about dual citizenship. A natural-born
citizen may also have the right to citizenship in
another country, that would not establish a constitutional violation.
A choice made at 21 could not affect whether or
not a person is a "natural-born citizen," unless
they are not a citizen at all. Jaro Jaro confuses
legal recognition with the underlying fact, as if
"U.S. citizen" were a natural fact instead of a
legal intepretation. A child of one US citizen
*has the right of citizenship* provided that the
situation meets certain requirements, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States_nationality_law&oldid=505832579#Birth_abroad_to_one_United_States_citizen
Jojo Jaro fails to convince with his confident
pronouncements of his opinions as fact.
Now, I'm an American by birth and affiliation,
and, I must say, I'm offended by the reference to
the President of the United States as "Bambi." It
makes it clear that this isn't about fact and
law, it's about hatred and contempt. Pretty rich for a "Christian."
At 07:29 PM 8/8/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:
That is incorrect Ron. A child of one US
citizen does not automatically become a US
citizen. He has to choose which
parent's citizenship he wants when he reaches
21. Besides, Stanley Ann Dunham was too young
to have conferred US citizenship to Bambi when
he was born. And a Dual Citizen is classified
automatically as NOT a Natural-Born US Citizen.
A child born out of 2 US citizens but born out
of US soil, can be a US citizen but not a Natural-Born US Citizen
A child born in US soil, but to non-US citizens,
may become a US citizen but not a Natural-Born US Citizen.
A child born in US soil, but to only 1 US
citizen parent, must choose which citizenship he
wants when he reaches 21. He may choose both
and become a Dual Citizen, but he is certainly NOT a Natural-Born US citizen.
But mere US citizenship does not qualify one to
be president. He has to be Natural-Born US
citizen. Which means a child of 2 US citizens and born on US soil.
One theory says that a Natural Born US Citizen
is one wherein he does not have to take any
special action to "get" his US citizenship. If
Bambi has to choose US Citizenship, then he is
automatically not a Natural-Born US
citizen. And this would be the case with Bambi,
because he was an Indonesian Citizen when he was
a child. But since, he was not yet 21 at that
time, he did not have to make a specific
choice. When he reached 21, he should have made
that choice. If he did not, then he is still an
Illegal Alien in this country. But none of this
can be resolved because criminal-in-chief has a
"gag" order on all agencies and private entities
to keep his records secret. Question is, WHY?
Jojo
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Wormus" <prot...@frii.com>
To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 2:28 AM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media
makes scientists think we are crazy
As far as I know a child born to a US citizen is automatically also a
citizen regardless of location of birth. I have grand daughters born in
Switzerland who have dual citizenship.
Ron
--On Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:31 PM -0700 MarkI-ZeroPoint
<zeropo...@charter.net> wrote:
Good debate! This is what freedom of speech is all about
>
"His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US
citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that
they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason."
Agreed. His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here),
so it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning to the USA
*permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to be
a U.S. Citizen. If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck
would
>
I'm sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being
POTUS someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up
the "in case he wanted to become President someday" argument
> there is reason enough by just coming here.
If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your child
to be a US citizen?
I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments
and evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far
perhaps
after the next election we'll find out? Or not
>
-Mark
From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we
are crazy
Straw Man argument.
First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all
births in the newspaper. During that time, anyone can report a birth to
Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii.
Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth. Funny
though cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's
parents.
Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly
conspired to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be
president. That's a straw man. His grandparents were not dumb and
knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to
be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is
good enough a reason.
But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still
secret. He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone
call to release his vault BC. Why hasn't he done it? All your eloquent
reasons will not overcome this simple fact.
Jojo
