Voltage only at the start. There would really need to be a lot of measurements to make a good comparison beyond what I measured (just temperature).
On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Jeff Berkowitz <pdx...@gmail.com> wrote: > Did you measure current or voltage at any time? > Jeff > > > On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Jack Cole <jcol...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Chuck, >> >> My experiment has ended for today with my power supply blowing out. I >> think my last test was not a good test of the nickel vs copper. I was >> using what looks like a chrome plated alligator type clip as the anode in >> both. I can see where that could have been a problem as well as I don't >> know what it was plated with. Also, I think it's not a good idea to use >> the same power supply for two cells as it seems more current may flow one >> direction than the other? I didn't use any W in the copper cathode cell >> (only in the one with the nickels). >> >> Now here's the really curious thing. In the copper cell, the 10 ml of >> borax is gone. I tried to mix it in at the beginning, but it just settled >> back to the bottom. Some kind of chemistry was taking place. Perhaps >> producing boric acid? Some of it also appears to have collected in/on the >> anode. >> >> I'm using two small measuring glasses (150 ml capacity filled to 110 ml). >> Before the power supply blew after 3 1/2 hrs the copper cell hit 129.7F >> and the nickel cell was at 79.1. The nickel cell peaked out at 92.1 after >> 1 hour and slowly dropped. I think it was a current flow problem as those >> results for the nickel cell were not consistent with my first run. >> >> Also, for anyone trying to replicate should head the following. If you >> use a cooking thermometer, do not leave it in the cell while you are >> running the experiment. I did this with my first one, and it permanently >> altered the readout making it 20F too high because of some deposit on the >> metal that could not be removed. >> >> Jack >> >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Chuck Sites <cbsit...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Jack, >>> >>> Congratulations, your report is exactly in lines with what I saw >>> with Ni(+) Cu(-) in my jar experiments. That was typically 100ml of H2O >>> and a 3gm Na2B4O7 solution. Once the Ni coin breaks down just a little, in >>> a constant voltage system, the current would jump up and the Ni coin would >>> get hot. (Your counter electrode, should be the temp of the solution). >>> Those quick calculations are interesting because your doing it like I did, >>> running an open system, no recombiner, and your system has >>> hit equilibrium. The fun part is that it will go for days like that, as >>> long as the water is replenished. Eventually you may need to add a little >>> more electrolyte. >>> >>> I know there is some complex boron chemistry going on with metal oxides >>> forming as a result which is typical of electrolysis. What is unusual >>> about this as far as Joule heating, or Ohmic heating, is that in a typical >>> wire, >>> heating occurs in a location where current is pinched where Q is >>> proportional to I^2 R. So typically as in a Nichrome wire, it's a small >>> diameter, and slightly higher resistance than the feeding electrodes. Here >>> you have this really large hunk of metal (the Ni coin) and the feeding wire >>> is smaller than the metal. It just such a large are >>> for resistive heating. >>> >>> I just read your update with the Cu coin as the (+) heating more. What >>> is your counter electrode material. Tungsten? It maybe, W is also one of >>> those interesting H absorbing materials. W was always on the todo >>> list though. Keep going, I'm really interested in seeing what you get. >>> Also, could you guess as to the size of your jar dimensions and weight. >>> A typical glass jar also has a pretty good size heat capacity. >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> Chuck >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Jack Cole <jcol...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> So that's 141.7g of water. It was an open container so heat freely >>>> dissipated and I would also presume that power was also going into >>>> electrolysis in addition to heating. So, based on Arnaud's calculations, >>>> we can't rule out purely electrical heating. I'll report on the next >>>> experiment which involves a control cell using pennies instead of nickels >>>> and no thoriated tungsten. I have two identical cells that I have filled >>>> with equal amounts of borax and water and will be powering from the same >>>> supply (one has thoriated tungsten/nickels and the other with >>>> pennies/copper). >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Jack Cole <jcol...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> It was 5 oz of water. I shut it down after the temp maxed out at 158F. >>>>> On Oct 1, 2012 12:29 PM, "Arnaud Kodeck" <arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> ** >>>>>> Find here some simple calorimetry calculations : >>>>>> >>>>>> Electrical energy given to the system : 4.33 hours @ 12 watt = 187056 >>>>>> J => 44677 cal >>>>>> >>>>>> To rise the temp from 55 F to 146 F, the system need 50 cal/g of >>>>>> water. (Assuming electrodes and recipient are negligible) >>>>>> >>>>>> Assuming no loss of heat by dissipation, the electrical energy >>>>>> released will rise the temperature of 44677 / 50 = 884g of water. >>>>>> >>>>>> If Jack use more than 884g of water, we are sure that there is >>>>>> another energy source (chemical or other). >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> *From:* ken deboer [mailto:barlaz...@gmail.com] >>>>>> *Sent:* lundi 1 octobre 2012 19:00 >>>>>> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Replication of Chuck Sites Nickel/Boron >>>>>> Experiment >>>>>> >>>>>> Very interesting, indeed. How much water are you using? If >>>>>> everything were 100% efficient, and you were inputting 12 watts/hr = ~40 >>>>>> btu/hr, over 3 hours you would have 120 btu, which theoretically could >>>>>> raise 1 pound of water 120 F. >>>>>> Best regards, kend >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Jack Cole <jcol...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks Jed, glad to do it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Small update: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 7 am Temp 55F Start >>>>>>> 9 am Temp 110F >>>>>>> 10 am Temp 129F >>>>>>> 11:20 am Temp 146F >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Outside temp started at 55F and was at 57F at 11:20 am. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'll keep running until the temp levels off. At that point, I'll >>>>>>> work on setting up a control cell. The water has turned brown, so I >>>>>>> presume something is also happening with the copper (either in the >>>>>>> nickels >>>>>>> or the exposed portion of copper wire attaching to the electrode). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for doing this! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Jed >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> >
