It remind me one of the old rebel, who beside shaking the scientific community, being insulted by journalist and holder of The True Truth, do babysitting after the conferences...
This fearless and hopeless scientist, with a huge carreer in his domain, said that he was forced to do the job alone or with few old apes, because if he employed some young student for a thesis it would ruin their career and close them the doors of all research centers. the worst is that the "defender of the truth" says that the dissenters are funded by billions... fact is that the lobbyists are on of "True Truth" side... another problems... off topic. It make me laugh when I see those holder of true truth talk in detail of how to identify conspiracy theories. (see http://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffavisonlus.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F09%2F24%2Fbufale-scientifiche-mietono-vittime-ma-e-piu-facile-smascherarle%2F ) this make me however cautious today when I am sure of something... good lesson. I've noticed also that many member of the "militia of True Truth" are often quite young... Maybe stockholm syndrome, Mutual Assured Delusion, because they are too dependent on the system. maybe also they have too few experience, seen too few generation and places, too few delusions, crisis... I started to understand the "collective delusion" after participating two bubbles/crash. as I said, older people are sometime the required "alien" from another time, facing a system which is too modern, where young people unlike before bring no new vision, because all is their own vision. we need free people, we need alien, from another time (past or future) another place, another domaine, another approach, another sex, another social milieu... we need unexpected! young or old... but unexpected, alien and free. 2013/9/25 James Bowery <jabow...@gmail.com> > I think you may be misunderstanding Jed's point, Dave. > > Jed is far from implying that among LENR researchers the young are better > represented than the old. Indeed, it is manifestly obvious that LENR > research is kept alive almost entirely by the freedom older scientists > enjoy either under tenure or retirement -- and there is a serious problem > attracting younger researchers to the field because they dare not do a > thesis on LENR. > > This might seem to be a paradox: If the younger researchers are pursuing > their thesis under the direction of older researchers, and LENR research is > largely the domain of older if not elderly researchers, then there should > be an explosion of young researchers being directed toward LENR for their > thesis work. > > But that is a logical fallacy. > > > > > On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:05 AM, David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com>wrote: > >> We are discussing a complicated issue. All old people and young people >> are not the same and it is not fair to stereotype everyone. It has been my >> observation that people tend to think in manners that are a result of their >> life experiences. An older scientist with a clear open mind has the >> ability to bring a vast amount of experience to the table. He has already >> made uncountable mistakes in judgement about nature whereas the youngster >> has just started finding that he does not understand everything about the >> universe. >> >> Some of our friends on this list harbor a lot of knowledge that they can >> and do offer to the discussions. It is critical to listen to what they >> have to say about new ideas since these can be filtered by their past >> experiences. The young guys are brave and willing to make mistakes which >> is a good thing as long as they continue to learn from these. >> >> It is refreshing to find some of the older scientists willing to >> speculate about LENR in open discussions where they understand that some of >> their ideas might be ridiculed. There is no shame in finding yourself >> defending your beliefs as long as the penalty is not too severe. >> >> All I request is that people keep asking questions about unexpected >> observations and not be of the firm belief that they have all the answers. >> Whether young or old, anyone with the proper mental state can find >> important pieces to the complex puzzle that we call LENR and we should >> encourage their inputs. One day soon the operation of these devices will >> be understood and we will all look back and see how the evidence was there >> the entire time. >> >> Dave >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alain Sepeda <alain.sep...@gmail.com> >> To: Vortex List <vortex-l@eskimo.com> >> Sent: Wed, Sep 25, 2013 11:16 am >> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Cold Fusion on Wikipedia japanes and chinese >> >> I agree too that most of incentive in Science is status (science in >> real life is very like political in a way as my dear MP secretary explained >> to me). >> >> about removing older people from decision, I think it can be evil too. >> From decision maybe, but from discussion no. >> >> I see that older people often, because they can have no huge ambition >> for future, because they can have enough protection to feel safe, because >> they can have more ego than fear of the future, those fearless people, can >> play the rebels... >> In the early 20th century , young could play the rebels, they had to, but >> I'm afraid modern generation of scientists are so dependent on career and >> funding, that they cannot take the risk to think out of the funding box. >> They are also often too submitted to fashion, while oldies can remind of >> a period when things were different. >> >> they will be what Norbert Alter called "alien", people who >> >> Today in many controversies,; I see only oldies, who take , for best >> and worst (I don't agree, mostly for best), crazy positions against the >> consensus, based on old knowledge, old evidences, of their memory of a >> period where feeling and trends were different. >> >> In the late 19th century, oldies were conservatives in a stable society. >> Today oldies are keepers of dead times, of dead culture, of outdated >> consensus, washed by waves of fashions and new consensus. >> Oldies are rebels, aliens, foreigner of their time, like were the young >> before. >> Like old heros, they can decide to suicide their career to defend their >> micro-ethics, not afraid of anything worse than the planned story... >> retirement and death. >> >> Maybe they are wrong, but sure you should not remove them from the >> story. >> They are what the young were before. >> If you look for young rebel, forget in science, go to business. >> >> However I agree that out of science, oldies often are more defending >> their honeypot, surfing on fashion, rather than rebels or defender of old >> values. >> >> >> >> 2013/9/25 Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> >> >>> James Bowery <jabow...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> There is also opposition from many ordinary people and many stupid >>>>> people at places like Wikipedia >>>>> >>>>> >>>> In all of these cases we're dealing with the incentives of social >>>> status more than authority structure. >>>> >>> >>> I agree. I would say it is ordinary primate behavior, similar to what >>> you see in our cousins the chimpanzees, and in other group hunting >>> predators such as wolves. (I am not denigrating this behavior. I have great >>> respect for other species.) >>> >>> >>> >>>> So how do you identify the Jason(s) most likely to be more concerned >>>> with national security than peer pressure? >>>> >>> >>> I wouldn't know. I have never met 'em. I don't even know who they all >>> are. I know some people who have met with them, and meet with them every >>> year. I get the impression the Jasons are a bunch of washed up old farts >>> who are opposed to everything that wasn't discovered before they turned 30, >>> which was a long time ago. But I could be wrong. >>> >>> I know that one or two of them often pull strings to have cold fusion >>> funding cancelled. >>> >>> It is big mistake to give any scientist over 30 a role in allocating >>> money or making decisions. The way to make progress is get a large pot of >>> money and hand it out to young people, letting them do whatever they please >>> with it. Some of them will waste it. A few may steal it. But most will make >>> far better use of it than an old scientist could. Young people succeed in >>> doing things the older people think are impossible, because the young >>> people have not yet learned where the boundary between possible and >>> impossible likes. Actually, that boundary is imaginary, like a geographical >>> boundary -- a state line, or a property line. No one knows what is possible >>> and what isn't. No one can even imagine. >>> >>> - Jed >>> >>> >> >
