On 15 Dec 2005, at 9:07 PM, Bob Schwartz wrote:
For the record: I am past 1998 in my designs, but as I mentioned
earlier, I don't do designs from 1998 because I want to, I have some
clients who want that look.
Like I said, it was not personal, and I didn't see you comment earlier
- but still, it is a solution for future reference. There is another
simple solution to sign off this mail if you don't want to read my
rant. Again, nothing personal Bob, this rant is for any designer who
has clients wanting that 1998 look.
Should I tell them to go somewhere else?
Maybe.
If you really want to do web standard design because you believe in the
benefits that it offers, then make a convincing case for your clients.
You: The type of design you are asking for has been around for a while,
it's a bit tired and doesn't perform all that well compared to more
recent designs. You would prefer to go to market with a fresher design
that works better wouldn't you? [say something else if you can't say
this with *absolute sincerity*, and back it up]
Them: Of course. [They will ask for clarification].
You: I'm glad you asked. [talk about the benefits of standards design,
or how it's better to have a design that looks modern rather than one
that looks like it's from last century]
I usually find that the clients design preference is a proxy for some
other ideals that they want to emulate. What is it about that design
pattern that they like, and why? Is it actually the design or something
about the company using that design that they want to emulate? More
importantly, do the clients customers share those same opinions?
Otherwise it is usually just a personal preference, nothing more... and
luckily the web site is usually for the clients customers, not the
client. It's helpful to get them to make that distinction.
If you can't convince them then it really comes down a decision about
if you need the work or not, or if you don't mind using tables for
layout. If you really need to use a table and don't mind using tables
for layout then use one. No sweat. It is usually better err on the
pragmatic side ;-)
Plus I don't want to get into the quirks of clients in this thread,
I'd like to concentrate on finding a solution to a real problem that
is as reliable (browser-wise) and as easy to implement as it is with a
table,
Sure... clients who needs them? But see the real problem is clients
making design decisions that may not be appropriate for the shape of
the market today (and tomorrow). And given that they aren't
designers... how can they make effective design decisions, if you don't
tell them what works best?
In other words, Terrance, the goal is a design as described above and
the solution can't be change the design, but has to be: attain the
design without a table.
My apologies, I never realised the visual design was non-negotiable.
If it can't be done, I'd like to see a humble admission from the
non-table people that maybe there is an instance in the real world
where a table is not only OK, but probably THE solution so I can fell
less "unpure":-} about using a table to solve my problem.
Why do you need a 'humble admission' from the 'non-table' people? Do
these people claim that you can make designs in CSS that are exactly
the same as a multicolumn multicolor layout created with tables?
If you have a design that is non-negotiable then just do what it takes
to to implement it.
Personally, I would just make all the images 1000px tall and
incorporate the background colors in the shorter images.
Which browser can correctly render the following:
3 columns, no height defined and a background color different from
that of the body
in column 1 goes a 1000px high image
in column 2 goes a 750px high image
in column 3 goes a 500px high image
the end result should be that all three columns are the same height
in other words:
below the image in column 1, no background color shows
below the image in column 2, 250px of background color shows
below the image in column 3, 500px of background color shows
kind regards
Terrence Wood.
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