Thanks for that Kirk. I found your ORDA comments interesting.
I'll be at the London event.
Pat

On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 at 15:00, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> Heading home from the WT in Atlanta. For me this was the best WT so far and
> I've been to them all. I think anyone using 4D benefits from attending. The
> first day is free. In previous WTs day one was more of a sales pitch and
> feature overview. Not so this time. There are 17 demo databases in day one.
> They highlight and present many of the new capabilities involving ORDA,
> Form, dynamic forms and a more refined preview of 4D for iOS. There are a
> number of useful elements you can pull right into a project - assuming you
> are working v17+.
>
> And this is really a critical point - the World Tour is focused on the
> future of 4D and that future is ORDA. Actually it is more than just ORDA.
> ORDA is the new, modern direction of programming 4D is taking. It's not
> everything, though. The change in the way we can work with forms isn't
> connected with ORDA per se but it's no less a profound change. And a
> welcome one form me. I really like the form editor but the ability to
> create forms dynamically and store their definitions externally in JSON
> files is a good thing. The ability to store an entire 4D database (it will
> be known as a Project) will be available soon (though not committed to).
>
> The first day exposes you to many of the new features in 4D and clearly
> lays out the thinking behind the changes made and to come. This alone makes
> it worth the time and expense to travel to it.
>
> The second day is for those of us using 4D professionally. JPR and Add have
> spent time putting together excellent demos and presentations. These demo
> the nuts and bolts of effectively working with ORDA and forms. This is
> information you will need to effectively apply these new techniques in real
> world projects. And once more there are bits and pieces you can pull right
> out of a demo and use yourself which do useful things.
>
> I was chatting with someone yesterday morning and he asked me what my 3 big
> take-aways were up to then. Here's what I wrote back:
>
> #1 - all the time I’ve spent learning to use ORDA has been spot on and well
> spent. (I finished yesterday for the first time feeling like I kept up with
> JPR.)
> #2 - this is truly the way forward for 4D.
> #3 - because it’s the way forward it is where all the resources are being
> focused. And they are moving fast.
> #4 - it’s super important to grasp the concept of references vs. the way we
> have thought about variables in the past.
>
> (get the reference to my off-by-one joke?)
>
> I have been actively working on educating myself on ORDA and object
> oriented programming for the past few months. And I really did feel like I
> was keeping up with JPR right up to the end of day 1. Not so much on day 2
> but at least my eyes didn't glaze over. The point, though, is how much
> programming in 4D is changing. 4D classic and backward compatibility is not
> in danger. I mean - they've been threatening to remove subtables for how
> many years and 4D still deals with them if it needs too. Mostly. So old
> school programming done with 4D classic is going to run on new versions of
> 4D for probably longer than any of us will be able to write intelligible
> code. (Assuming you can write intelligible code now...) But all the new
> work is being focused on ORDA and its associated technology.
>
> Why? Because Laurant believes it's the direction to go. It's a modern
> approach to programming. You can (and will) argue with that but it's where
> this train is headed.
>
> Do you need to get on board?
>
> I mean that seriously. The fact is you may not. There are a lot of us who
> have used 4D for a long, long time. We've written bunches of apps, have
> them deployed and running just fine. It's like a retired neighbor said to
> me when we were talking about repairing a fence on our common lot line: "it
> only has to last as long as I do."  Personally I don't think there is any
> compelling reason to take old code that's running fine and try to inject
> ORDA into it. There is no advantage. As I understand it the database engine
> in 4D is the same engine that Wakanda used. Wakanda exposed more
> capabilities of that engine but at the core it's the same engine. ORDA is
> rolling out so fast because the engine is already there and tested. ORDA is
> a programming layer, if you will. 4D classic is different layer. ORDA is
> faster to develop with and requires less code to accomplish the same
> results. It's also more comprehensible to folks already accustomed to OOP
> languages or javaScript. I think there are some cases where classic 4D may
> be faster on basic operations but I don't think those will stand because
> ORDA is where the focus is.
>
> If you are planning on retiring in the next few years, or selling your
> vertical market app there's no real reason for you to worry about learning
> this stuff in my opinion. You don't have to have it. But if you are looking
> at having your app running and being updated in the future, or our app is
> critical to a business, or looking at hiring programmers to work on your
> app, or looking at 4D as a rapid development platform (it used to be
> classified that way) then get to the World Tour and be willing to learn.
> Because once you get going with ORDA 4D is really fun to program in again.
>
> --
> Kirk Brooks
> San Francisco, CA
> =======================
>
> What can be said, can be said clearly,
> and what you can’t say, you should shut up about
>
> *Wittgenstein and the Computer *
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