Hey Pat
Yeah it will be really helpful for the planning you need to do.

Let me know what you think.

On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 11:01 AM Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Thanks for that Kirk. I found your ORDA comments interesting.
> I'll be at the London event.
> Pat
>
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 at 15:00, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Heading home from the WT in Atlanta. For me this was the best WT so far
> and
> > I've been to them all. I think anyone using 4D benefits from attending.
> The
> > first day is free. In previous WTs day one was more of a sales pitch and
> > feature overview. Not so this time. There are 17 demo databases in day
> one.
> > They highlight and present many of the new capabilities involving ORDA,
> > Form, dynamic forms and a more refined preview of 4D for iOS. There are a
> > number of useful elements you can pull right into a project - assuming
> you
> > are working v17+.
> >
> > And this is really a critical point - the World Tour is focused on the
> > future of 4D and that future is ORDA. Actually it is more than just ORDA.
> > ORDA is the new, modern direction of programming 4D is taking. It's not
> > everything, though. The change in the way we can work with forms isn't
> > connected with ORDA per se but it's no less a profound change. And a
> > welcome one form me. I really like the form editor but the ability to
> > create forms dynamically and store their definitions externally in JSON
> > files is a good thing. The ability to store an entire 4D database (it
> will
> > be known as a Project) will be available soon (though not committed to).
> >
> > The first day exposes you to many of the new features in 4D and clearly
> > lays out the thinking behind the changes made and to come. This alone
> makes
> > it worth the time and expense to travel to it.
> >
> > The second day is for those of us using 4D professionally. JPR and Add
> have
> > spent time putting together excellent demos and presentations. These demo
> > the nuts and bolts of effectively working with ORDA and forms. This is
> > information you will need to effectively apply these new techniques in
> real
> > world projects. And once more there are bits and pieces you can pull
> right
> > out of a demo and use yourself which do useful things.
> >
> > I was chatting with someone yesterday morning and he asked me what my 3
> big
> > take-aways were up to then. Here's what I wrote back:
> >
> > #1 - all the time I’ve spent learning to use ORDA has been spot on and
> well
> > spent. (I finished yesterday for the first time feeling like I kept up
> with
> > JPR.)
> > #2 - this is truly the way forward for 4D.
> > #3 - because it’s the way forward it is where all the resources are being
> > focused. And they are moving fast.
> > #4 - it’s super important to grasp the concept of references vs. the way
> we
> > have thought about variables in the past.
> >
> > (get the reference to my off-by-one joke?)
> >
> > I have been actively working on educating myself on ORDA and object
> > oriented programming for the past few months. And I really did feel like
> I
> > was keeping up with JPR right up to the end of day 1. Not so much on day
> 2
> > but at least my eyes didn't glaze over. The point, though, is how much
> > programming in 4D is changing. 4D classic and backward compatibility is
> not
> > in danger. I mean - they've been threatening to remove subtables for how
> > many years and 4D still deals with them if it needs too. Mostly. So old
> > school programming done with 4D classic is going to run on new versions
> of
> > 4D for probably longer than any of us will be able to write intelligible
> > code. (Assuming you can write intelligible code now...) But all the new
> > work is being focused on ORDA and its associated technology.
> >
> > Why? Because Laurant believes it's the direction to go. It's a modern
> > approach to programming. You can (and will) argue with that but it's
> where
> > this train is headed.
> >
> > Do you need to get on board?
> >
> > I mean that seriously. The fact is you may not. There are a lot of us who
> > have used 4D for a long, long time. We've written bunches of apps, have
> > them deployed and running just fine. It's like a retired neighbor said to
> > me when we were talking about repairing a fence on our common lot line:
> "it
> > only has to last as long as I do."  Personally I don't think there is any
> > compelling reason to take old code that's running fine and try to inject
> > ORDA into it. There is no advantage. As I understand it the database
> engine
> > in 4D is the same engine that Wakanda used. Wakanda exposed more
> > capabilities of that engine but at the core it's the same engine. ORDA is
> > rolling out so fast because the engine is already there and tested. ORDA
> is
> > a programming layer, if you will. 4D classic is different layer. ORDA is
> > faster to develop with and requires less code to accomplish the same
> > results. It's also more comprehensible to folks already accustomed to OOP
> > languages or javaScript. I think there are some cases where classic 4D
> may
> > be faster on basic operations but I don't think those will stand because
> > ORDA is where the focus is.
> >
> > If you are planning on retiring in the next few years, or selling your
> > vertical market app there's no real reason for you to worry about
> learning
> > this stuff in my opinion. You don't have to have it. But if you are
> looking
> > at having your app running and being updated in the future, or our app is
> > critical to a business, or looking at hiring programmers to work on your
> > app, or looking at 4D as a rapid development platform (it used to be
> > classified that way) then get to the World Tour and be willing to learn.
> > Because once you get going with ORDA 4D is really fun to program in
> again.
> >
> > --
> > Kirk Brooks
> > San Francisco, CA
> > =======================
> >
> > What can be said, can be said clearly,
> > and what you can’t say, you should shut up about
> >
> > *Wittgenstein and the Computer *
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-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
=======================

What can be said, can be said clearly,
and what you can’t say, you should shut up about

*Wittgenstein and the Computer *
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