Hey Pat Yeah it will be really helpful for the planning you need to do. Let me know what you think.
On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 11:01 AM Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech < [email protected]> wrote: > Thanks for that Kirk. I found your ORDA comments interesting. > I'll be at the London event. > Pat > > On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 at 15:00, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech < > [email protected]> > wrote: > > > Heading home from the WT in Atlanta. For me this was the best WT so far > and > > I've been to them all. I think anyone using 4D benefits from attending. > The > > first day is free. In previous WTs day one was more of a sales pitch and > > feature overview. Not so this time. There are 17 demo databases in day > one. > > They highlight and present many of the new capabilities involving ORDA, > > Form, dynamic forms and a more refined preview of 4D for iOS. There are a > > number of useful elements you can pull right into a project - assuming > you > > are working v17+. > > > > And this is really a critical point - the World Tour is focused on the > > future of 4D and that future is ORDA. Actually it is more than just ORDA. > > ORDA is the new, modern direction of programming 4D is taking. It's not > > everything, though. The change in the way we can work with forms isn't > > connected with ORDA per se but it's no less a profound change. And a > > welcome one form me. I really like the form editor but the ability to > > create forms dynamically and store their definitions externally in JSON > > files is a good thing. The ability to store an entire 4D database (it > will > > be known as a Project) will be available soon (though not committed to). > > > > The first day exposes you to many of the new features in 4D and clearly > > lays out the thinking behind the changes made and to come. This alone > makes > > it worth the time and expense to travel to it. > > > > The second day is for those of us using 4D professionally. JPR and Add > have > > spent time putting together excellent demos and presentations. These demo > > the nuts and bolts of effectively working with ORDA and forms. This is > > information you will need to effectively apply these new techniques in > real > > world projects. And once more there are bits and pieces you can pull > right > > out of a demo and use yourself which do useful things. > > > > I was chatting with someone yesterday morning and he asked me what my 3 > big > > take-aways were up to then. Here's what I wrote back: > > > > #1 - all the time I’ve spent learning to use ORDA has been spot on and > well > > spent. (I finished yesterday for the first time feeling like I kept up > with > > JPR.) > > #2 - this is truly the way forward for 4D. > > #3 - because it’s the way forward it is where all the resources are being > > focused. And they are moving fast. > > #4 - it’s super important to grasp the concept of references vs. the way > we > > have thought about variables in the past. > > > > (get the reference to my off-by-one joke?) > > > > I have been actively working on educating myself on ORDA and object > > oriented programming for the past few months. And I really did feel like > I > > was keeping up with JPR right up to the end of day 1. Not so much on day > 2 > > but at least my eyes didn't glaze over. The point, though, is how much > > programming in 4D is changing. 4D classic and backward compatibility is > not > > in danger. I mean - they've been threatening to remove subtables for how > > many years and 4D still deals with them if it needs too. Mostly. So old > > school programming done with 4D classic is going to run on new versions > of > > 4D for probably longer than any of us will be able to write intelligible > > code. (Assuming you can write intelligible code now...) But all the new > > work is being focused on ORDA and its associated technology. > > > > Why? Because Laurant believes it's the direction to go. It's a modern > > approach to programming. You can (and will) argue with that but it's > where > > this train is headed. > > > > Do you need to get on board? > > > > I mean that seriously. The fact is you may not. There are a lot of us who > > have used 4D for a long, long time. We've written bunches of apps, have > > them deployed and running just fine. It's like a retired neighbor said to > > me when we were talking about repairing a fence on our common lot line: > "it > > only has to last as long as I do." Personally I don't think there is any > > compelling reason to take old code that's running fine and try to inject > > ORDA into it. There is no advantage. As I understand it the database > engine > > in 4D is the same engine that Wakanda used. Wakanda exposed more > > capabilities of that engine but at the core it's the same engine. ORDA is > > rolling out so fast because the engine is already there and tested. ORDA > is > > a programming layer, if you will. 4D classic is different layer. ORDA is > > faster to develop with and requires less code to accomplish the same > > results. It's also more comprehensible to folks already accustomed to OOP > > languages or javaScript. I think there are some cases where classic 4D > may > > be faster on basic operations but I don't think those will stand because > > ORDA is where the focus is. > > > > If you are planning on retiring in the next few years, or selling your > > vertical market app there's no real reason for you to worry about > learning > > this stuff in my opinion. You don't have to have it. But if you are > looking > > at having your app running and being updated in the future, or our app is > > critical to a business, or looking at hiring programmers to work on your > > app, or looking at 4D as a rapid development platform (it used to be > > classified that way) then get to the World Tour and be willing to learn. > > Because once you get going with ORDA 4D is really fun to program in > again. > > > > -- > > Kirk Brooks > > San Francisco, CA > > ======================= > > > > What can be said, can be said clearly, > > and what you can’t say, you should shut up about > > > > *Wittgenstein and the Computer * > > ********************************************************************** > > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) > > Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html > > Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech > > Unsub: mailto:[email protected] > > ********************************************************************** > > > > -- > ************************************************* > CatBase - Top Dog in Data Publishing > tel: +44 (0) 207 118 7889 > w: http://www.catbase.com > skype: pat.bensky > ************************************************* > ********************************************************************** > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) > Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html > Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech > Unsub: mailto:[email protected] > ********************************************************************** -- Kirk Brooks San Francisco, CA ======================= What can be said, can be said clearly, and what you can’t say, you should shut up about *Wittgenstein and the Computer * ********************************************************************** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:[email protected] **********************************************************************
