Hi,

(only replying to the impersonation part)

>>     >> So, while B and IMAP are both part of the same AAA
>>     >> infrastructure, they only have a per-service trust towards the
>>     >> EAP server; the AAA infrastructure doesn't preclude the two from
>>     >> cheating over each other.
>>
>>     Alper> B is a NAS. It's not allowed to source AAA messages for
>>     Alper> non-NAS related procedures (e.g., IMAP). Wouldn't this
>> simply
>>     Alper> solution handle the issue?
>>
>> B is malicious. It doesn't care what you think it is allowed to do.
>> Something in the system needs to prevent B from acting improperly.
>> The logical place to enfore that is at the EAP server.
>> To do that, the EAP server needs to know what the user thought they
>> were
>> trying to do--it needs channel binding.
> C knows B is a "NAS", not an "IMAP server". 
> Therefore C would not let an IMAP session be AAAed on the B.
>
> Equivalent of that is what is relied upon in order to prevent a WiFi NAS to
> pretend like a WiMAX NAS. 
>
>
> I'm not saying channel binding is unnecessary. I'm saying the scenario you
> are providing does not require channel binding.

C knows that B is a NAS. C knows that IMAP is a NAS. What C doesn't know
is that B initiated a TCP connection on the IMAP4 port, started an IMAP
conversation, and, when asked to authenticate via GSSAPI/EAP uses a
carbon copy of the EAP authentication currently going on with A for
network access.

I hope that makes the attack scenario clearer...

Stefan

>>     Alper> I'm afraid this is mixing up requirements and applicability
>>     Alper> discussions.  Probably any transport protocol (including
>>     Alper> pigeons) is fine as an EAP lower-layer as long as it
>>     Alper> satisfies the EAP lower-layer requirements.  But carrying
>>     Alper> anything or doing anything with EAP is not fine, and that's
>>     Alper> where the applicability statement comes into the picture.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     Alper> On a more radical note, why EAP has applicability statement,
>>     Alper> but no(?) other IETF protocol has one? What happens if we
>> get
>>     Alper> rid of the applicability statement completely?
>>
>>     Alper> Cheers,
>>
>> I would be strongly against removing the applicability statement
>> entirely. One of the main reasons for this is exactly because we have
>> found requirements such as channel binding that we need to place on
>> other uses of EAP.
> My concern with the applicability statement is that, it can be misused
> unless it is perfectly defined, which is not possible by definition. This is
> very tricky. Do we have good experience and examples with defining
> applicability statements in IETF? (The ones that I have seen so far have
> been bad experiences :-)
>
> Btw, can't we say the same thing for any authentication
> method/mechanism/protocol (not just EAP)? If I'm getting
> authenticated/authorized for Service X using method Y, there needs to be
> some way of ensuring that the other end-point of authentication also thinks
> I'm up for Service X. Does TLS, HTTP-digest, IKE, etc. all take care of
> that? I think not. So, we should think if they also need channel-binding, or
> if they have some substitute solutions. Any thoughts on that?
>
> Alper
>
>
>
>
> Alper
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Stefan WINTER
Ingenieur de Recherche
Fondation RESTENA - Réseau Téléinformatique de l'Education Nationale et de la 
Recherche
6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi
L-1359 Luxembourg

Tel: +352 424409 1
Fax: +352 422473


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