Andres,

Let's put the bits saved aside for a moment - we are living with that
because Microsoft hacked states back in '95. I don't see how we can assume
single line for a compound document.

For text roles we have:

IA2_ROLE_TEXT_FRAME: Collection of objects that constitute a logical text
entity.
ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT: The object represents selectable text that allows edits
or is designated read-only.

In a compound document, unless you have an embedded text form field, you
don't really have a notion of single or multi-line.

Rich


Rich Schwerdtfeger
CTO Accessibility Software Group


                                                                       
             Andres Gonzalez                                           
             <[email protected]                                         
             om>                                                        To
                                       Richard                         
             04/13/2010 09:11          Schwerdtfeger/Austin/i...@ibmus, 
             AM                        Carolyn MacLeod                 
                                       <[email protected]>    
                                                                        cc
                                       "[email protected]
                                       ation.org"                      
                                       <[email protected]
                                       ation.org>,                     
                                       "[email protected]
                                       nuxfoundation.org"              
                                       <[email protected]
                                       nuxfoundation.org>              
                                                                   Subject
                                       RE: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation
                                       of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE        
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       




Rich and all: I think we are essentially agreeing :
1. The multiline state is intended for text fields, where it is important
for a client to handle line breaks in sync with the app. The API, however,
does not preclude a server from setting the multiline state for other
roles.
2. At any particular time, a text field can only be either multiline or
single line, not both. An object can transition from one state to the
other, like a text field that expands as you enter more text on it, e.g.,
email header fields in some email clients.
For those reasons, I believe it is possible to declare only one bit flag
for the multiline state in the API, and assume that the absence of the bit
means single line, just as it is done for the checked/unchecked state. The
advantage is to save one bit of a 32-bit constant for a better use. It is a
purely implementation gain, does not affect the semantics of the API.

If someone needs to have two bits to signal multi or single line
independently for roles other than text fields, or in any other scenario in
general, then we should keep both, but I haven't heard that scenario yet.
Thanks,

--Andres.



From: [email protected] [
mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Richard Schwerdtfeger
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 6:32 AM
To: Carolyn MacLeod
Cc: [email protected];
[email protected]
Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE



 Sure. A web browser. Single and multi line were originally designed for
 text fields and text areas. Single and multi line should only be used for
 content that is only text and has defined line breaks. If neither of these
 properties are provided you will have document with embedded text, etc.

 ... I mean you could call a browser multi line text area but it really is
 not. It is a compound document.


 Rich Schwerdtfeger
 CTO Accessibility Software Group

 Inactive hide details for Carolyn MacLeod---04/12/2010 10:54:42 AM---Hi,
 Rich. You said:Carolyn MacLeod---04/12/2010 10:54:42 AM---Hi, Rich. You
 said::
                                                                       
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                         w        IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINERichard         
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 Hi, Rich.

 You said:
 > In documents it may mean neither single or multi-line.

 Can you give an example of a document that is neither single-line nor
 multi-line?

 You also said:
 > This really that trivial for documents.

 Did you mean "This really isn't that trivial for documents." ?

 Thanks!
 Car


 Inactive hide details for Richard Schwerdtfeger---11/04/2010 06:17:38
 AM---Single line means that it is a single line *text fieRichard
 Schwerdtfeger---11/04/2010 06:17:38 AM---Single line means that it is a
 single line *text field*. Will there be a problem in office applicati
                                                                       
                                                                       
 From:    Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/i...@ibmus                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
 To:      Carolyn MacLeod <[email protected]>                 
                                                                       
                                                                       
 Cc:      [email protected],                 
          [email protected], David   
          Bolter <[email protected]>                              
                                                                       
                                                                       
 Date:    11/04/2010 06:17 AM                                          
                                                                       
                                                                       
 Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE 
                                                                       




 Single line means that it is a single line *text field*. Will there be a
 problem in office applications where editable text is applied? ... is it
 really a single or multi-line as it is a document? In other words, is
 there an issue if we assume single line? In documents it may mean neither
 single or multi-line.

 If we delete it we will also have a conflict with ATK and Java which have
 single and multi-line:

 http://library.gnome.org/devel/atk/unstable/atk-AtkState.html#AtkStateType
 
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/javax/accessibility/AccessibleState.html


 It is been a long time but the purpose for single line and multiple line
 was to help ATs with Braille devices to know whether to break up the text,
 by line , for a text field. Obviously, a text field that is single line is
 rather easy to deal with. When You use mult-line you know to break up each
 line of text by rows. This really that trivial for documents.


 Rich Schwerdtfeger
 CTO Accessibility Software Group


 Inactive hide details for Carolyn MacLeod ---04/09/2010 04:52:07
 PM---Isn't role pretty much always the first thing an AT asks Carolyn
 MacLeod ---04/09/2010 04:52:07 PM---Isn't role pretty much always the
 first thing an AT asks any accessible object?
                                                                       
                         Carolyn MacLeod                               
                         <Carolyn_MacLeod                              
                         @ca.ibm.com>                                  
                         Sent by:                                      
                         accessibility-ia                               To
                         2-boun...@lists.                              
                         linuxfoundation.           David Bolter       
                         org                        <[email protected]
                                                    m>                 
                                                                       
                         04/09/2010 04:42                               cc
                         PM                                            
                                                    accessibility-...@list
                                                    s.linuxfoundation.org
                                                                       
                                                                   Subject
                                                                       
                                                    Re:                
                                                    [Accessibility-ia2]
                                                    Deprecation of     
                                                    IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       




 Isn't role pretty much always the first thing an AT asks any accessible
 object?

 Carolyn

                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
  Re: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE         
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
  David Bolter                                                         
                                           to:                         
                                                      accessibility-ia2
                                                       04/09/2010 03:11 PM
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
  Sent by:                                                             
                         [email protected]
                         rg                                            
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       







 The only concern I have is that Firefox has exposed it for a while;
 although that doesn't necessarily stop deprecation. Also I think
 Alexander's point is valid here:
 
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg00185.html


 Is it perhaps easier for AT to just check the state bit, rather than the
 role as well?

 cheers,
 David

 On 09/04/10 2:33 PM, Carolyn MacLeod wrote:
 Going once, going twice.... ?

 I need to decide whether or not to delete the single-line state bit from
 the Eclipse API before April 30.

 Carolyn



 From:
 Pete Brunet <[email protected]>
 To:
 IA2 List <[email protected]>
 Date:
 26/03/2010 09:21 AM
 Subject:
 [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE
 Sent by:
 [email protected]



 The following is (slightly edited) from Carolyn, who is implementing IA2
 in Eclipse...

 Back in the fall, Andres asked why IA2 provides both IA2_STATE_MULTI_LINE
 and  IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE state bits.

 
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg00173.html



 They would seem to be mutually exclusive, and having both takes up a
 precious bit in the 32-bit strip.
 Is there ever a case where an object can be neither single-line nor
 multi-line?
 Is there ever a case where an object can be both single-line and
 multi-line?

 In the conversation on the ia2 list, Jamie said that he had never even
 noticed the single-line bit.

 This is a possible source of error, for example if an application only
 notices and sets/clears the "single" bit, but the AT only looks at the
 "multi" bit.

 The list discussion kind of ended with "oh well, whatever".

 I propose deprecating IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE.  Any objections?




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