Rich, agree with everything you said. > ... I don't see how we can assume single line for a compound document. We don't, multi/single line state is a property useful for embedded text fields, role = ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT, not for other objects, much like checked/unchecked state applies checkboxes or radio buttons, but not to combo boxes or tables.
Concerning IA2_ROLE_TEXT_FRAME, a legitimate question would be, should servers also set the multiline state for that role when appropriate? Thanks, --Andres. ________________________________ From: Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 8:52 AM To: Andres Gonzalez Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; Carolyn MacLeod Subject: RE: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE Andres, Let's put the bits saved aside for a moment - we are living with that because Microsoft hacked states back in '95. I don't see how we can assume single line for a compound document. For text roles we have: IA2_ROLE_TEXT_FRAME: Collection of objects that constitute a logical text entity. ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT: The object represents selectable text that allows edits or is designated read-only. In a compound document, unless you have an embedded text form field, you don't really have a notion of single or multi-line. Rich Rich Schwerdtfeger CTO Accessibility Software Group [cid:704341118@13042010-2EA4]Andres Gonzalez ---04/13/2010 09:13:50 AM---Rich and all: I think we are essentially agreeing : 1. The multiline state is intended for text fields, where it is important f Andres Gonzalez <[email protected]> 04/13/2010 09:11 AM To Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/i...@ibmus, Carolyn MacLeod <[email protected]> cc "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject RE: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE Rich and all: I think we are essentially agreeing : 1. The multiline state is intended for text fields, where it is important for a client to handle line breaks in sync with the app. The API, however, does not preclude a server from setting the multiline state for other roles. 2. At any particular time, a text field can only be either multiline or single line, not both. An object can transition from one state to the other, like a text field that expands as you enter more text on it, e.g., email header fields in some email clients. For those reasons, I believe it is possible to declare only one bit flag for the multiline state in the API, and assume that the absence of the bit means single line, just as it is done for the checked/unchecked state. The advantage is to save one bit of a 32-bit constant for a better use. It is a purely implementation gain, does not affect the semantics of the API. If someone needs to have two bits to signal multi or single line independently for roles other than text fields, or in any other scenario in general, then we should keep both, but I haven't heard that scenario yet. Thanks, --Andres. ________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Schwerdtfeger Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 6:32 AM To: Carolyn MacLeod Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE Sure. A web browser. Single and multi line were originally designed for text fields and text areas. Single and multi line should only be used for content that is only text and has defined line breaks. If neither of these properties are provided you will have document with embedded text, etc. ... I mean you could call a browser multi line text area but it really is not. It is a compound document. Rich Schwerdtfeger CTO Accessibility Software Group [cid:704341118@13042010-2EA4]Carolyn MacLeod---04/12/2010 10:54:42 AM---Hi, Rich. You said: Carolyn MacLeod/Ottawa/i...@ibmca 04/12/2010 10:54 AM To Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/i...@ibmus cc [email protected], [email protected], David Bolter <[email protected]> Subject Re: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE[cid:704341118@13042010-2EB2]<Notes://d03mc133/8525604600467920/BD053B46B119C67A8525643000742B16/21A8494E5E67CA218625770200378E5A> Hi, Rich. You said: > In documents it may mean neither single or multi-line. Can you give an example of a document that is neither single-line nor multi-line? You also said: > This really that trivial for documents. Did you mean "This really isn't that trivial for documents." ? Thanks! Car [cid:704341118@13042010-2EA4]Richard Schwerdtfeger---11/04/2010 06:17:38 AM---Single line means that it is a single line *text field*. Will there be a problem in office applicati From: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/i...@ibmus To: Carolyn MacLeod <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected], [email protected], David Bolter <[email protected]> Date: 11/04/2010 06:17 AM Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE ________________________________ Single line means that it is a single line *text field*. Will there be a problem in office applications where editable text is applied? ... is it really a single or multi-line as it is a document? In other words, is there an issue if we assume single line? In documents it may mean neither single or multi-line. If we delete it we will also have a conflict with ATK and Java which have single and multi-line: http://library.gnome.org/devel/atk/unstable/atk-AtkState.html#AtkStateType http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/javax/accessibility/AccessibleState.html It is been a long time but the purpose for single line and multiple line was to help ATs with Braille devices to know whether to break up the text, by line , for a text field. Obviously, a text field that is single line is rather easy to deal with. When You use mult-line you know to break up each line of text by rows. This really that trivial for documents. Rich Schwerdtfeger CTO Accessibility Software Group [cid:704341118@13042010-2EA4]Carolyn MacLeod ---04/09/2010 04:52:07 PM---Isn't role pretty much always the first thing an AT asks any accessible object? Carolyn MacLeod <[email protected]> Sent by: [email protected] 04/09/2010 04:42 PM To David Bolter <[email protected]> cc [email protected] Subject Re: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE Isn't role pretty much always the first thing an AT asks any accessible object? Carolyn Re: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE David Bolter to: accessibility-ia2 04/09/2010 03:11 PM Sent by: [email protected] ________________________________ The only concern I have is that Firefox has exposed it for a while; although that doesn't necessarily stop deprecation. Also I think Alexander's point is valid here: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg00185.html Is it perhaps easier for AT to just check the state bit, rather than the role as well? cheers, David On 09/04/10 2:33 PM, Carolyn MacLeod wrote: Going once, going twice.... ? I need to decide whether or not to delete the single-line state bit from the Eclipse API before April 30. Carolyn From: Pete Brunet <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> To: IA2 List <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Date: 26/03/2010 09:21 AM Subject: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE Sent by: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> The following is (slightly edited) from Carolyn, who is implementing IA2 in Eclipse... Back in the fall, Andres asked why IA2 provides both IA2_STATE_MULTI_LINE and IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE state bits. http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg00173.html They would seem to be mutually exclusive, and having both takes up a precious bit in the 32-bit strip. Is there ever a case where an object can be neither single-line nor multi-line? Is there ever a case where an object can be both single-line and multi-line? In the conversation on the ia2 list, Jamie said that he had never even noticed the single-line bit. This is a possible source of error, for example if an application only notices and sets/clears the "single" bit, but the AT only looks at the "multi" bit. The list discussion kind of ended with "oh well, whatever". I propose deprecating IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE. Any objections? _______________________________________________ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 _______________________________________________ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list [email protected] https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 _______________________________________________ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list [email protected] https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
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