The definition of a text frame is a bit vague. For example, does it mean a text run with common attributes. (My thought is that it should not have either a single or multi line state). This role was added but I am not sure how it was used.
So, based on what you are telling me we need to have both single and
multi-line states in order to be able to separate text form elements from
rich text in the docuement. We just need to determine what we need in
compound documents. For example, state for single or multi-line would mean
simply a free-form text object that may be in a compound document. For
example:
- a message in a message dialog box
- a paragraph in rich text document
David, Li Xing, are you using IA2_ROLE _TEXT_FRAME in FF or Symphony and if
so how is it used?
Rich
Rich Schwerdtfeger
CTO Accessibility Software Group
Andres Gonzalez
<[email protected]
om> To
Richard
04/13/2010 01:34 Schwerdtfeger/Austin/i...@ibmus
PM cc
"[email protected]
ation.org"
<[email protected]
ation.org>,
"[email protected]
nuxfoundation.org"
<[email protected]
nuxfoundation.org>, Carolyn MacLeod
<[email protected]>
Subject
RE: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation
of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE
Rich, agree with everything you said.
> ... I don't see how we can assume single line for a compound document.
We don't, multi/single line state is a property useful for embedded text
fields, role = ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT, not for other objects, much like
checked/unchecked state applies checkboxes or radio buttons, but not to
combo boxes or tables.
Concerning IA2_ROLE_TEXT_FRAME, a legitimate question would be, should
servers also set the multiline state for that role when appropriate?
Thanks,
--Andres.
From: Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent:: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 8:52 AM
To: Andres Gonzalez
Cc: [email protected];
[email protected]; Carolyn MacLeod
Subject: RE: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE
Andres,
Let's put the bits saved aside for a moment - we are living with that
because Microsoft hacked states back in '95. I don't see how we can assume
single line for a compound document.
For text roles we have:
IA2_ROLE_TEXT_FRAME: Collection of objects that constitute a logical text
entity.
ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT: The object represents selectable text that allows edits
or is designated read-only.
In a compound document, unless you have an embedded text form field, you
don't really have a notion of single or multi-line.
Rich
Rich Schwerdtfeger
CTO Accessibility Software Group
Inactive hide details for Andres Gonzalez ---04/13/2010 09:13:50 AM---Rich
and all: I think we are essentially agreeing : 1. ThAndres Gonzalez
---04/13/2010 09:13:50 AM---Rich and all: I think we are essentially
agreeing : 1. The multiline state is intended for text fields, where it is
important f
Andres Gonzalez
<[email protected]
m>
To
04/13/2010 09:11
AM Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/i...@ibmus,
Carolyn MacLeod <[email protected]>
cc
"[email protected]
"
<[email protected]
>,
"[email protected]
tion.org"
<[email protected]
tion.org>
Subject
RE: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of
IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE
Rich and all: I think we are essentially agreeing :
1. The multiline state is intended for text fields, where it is important
for a client to handle line breaks in sync with the app. The API, however,
does not preclude a server from setting the multiline state for other
roles.
2. At any particular time, a text field can only be either multiline or
single line, not both. An object can transition from one state to the
other, like a text field that expands as you enter more text on it, e.g.,
email header fields in some email clients.
For those reasons, I believe it is possible to declare only one bit flag
for the multiline state in the API, and assume that the absence of the bit
means single line, just as it is done for the checked/unchecked state. The
advantage is to save one bit of a 32-bit constant for a better use. It is
a purely implementation gain, does not affect the semantics of the API.
If someone needs to have two bits to signal multi or single line
independently for roles other than text fields, or in any other scenario
in general, then we should keep both, but I haven't heard that scenario
yet. Thanks,
--Andres.
From: [email protected] [
mailto:[email protected].] On Behalf Of
Richard Schwerdtfeger
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 6:32 AM
To: Carolyn MacLeod
Cc: [email protected];
[email protected]
Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE
Sure. A web browser. Single and multi line were originally designed for
text fields and text areas. Single and multi line should only be used for
content that is only text and has defined line breaks. If neither of these
properties are provided you will have document with embedded text, etc.
... I mean you could call a browser multi line text area but it really is
not. It is a compound document.
Rich Schwerdtfeger
CTO Accessibility Software Group
Inactive hide details for Carolyn MacLeod---04/12/2010 10:54:42 AM---Hi,
Rich. You said:Carolyn MacLeod---04/12/2010 10:54:42 AM---Hi, Rich. You
said::
Carolyn
MacLeod/Ottawa/I
b...@ibmca
To
04/12/2010 10:54
AM Richard
Schwerdtfeger/Austin/i...@ibmus
cc
[email protected]
dation.org,
[email protected]
inuxfoundation.org, David Bolter
<[email protected]>
Subject
Re: [Accessibility-ia2]
Deprecation of
IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINERichard
Schwerdtfeger
Hi, Rich.
You said:
> In documents it may mean neither single or multi-line.
Can you give an example of a document that is neither single-line nor
multi-line?
You also said:
> This really that trivial for documents.
Did you mean "This really isn't that trivial for documents." ?
Thanks!
Car
Inactive hide details for Richard Schwerdtfeger---11/04/2010 06:17:38
AM---Single line means that it is a single line *text fieRichard
Schwerdtfeger---11/04/2010 06:17:38 AM---Single line means that it is a
single line *text field*. Will there be a problem in office applicati
From: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/i...@ibmus
To: Carolyn MacLeod <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected],
[email protected], David Bolter
<[email protected]>
Date: 11/04/2010 06:17 AM
Subject Re: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE
:
Single line means that it is a single line *text field*. Will there be a
problem in office applications where editable text is applied? ... is it
really a single or multi-line as it is a document? In other words, is
there an issue if we assume single line? In documents it may mean neither
single or multi-line.
If we delete it we will also have a conflict with ATK and Java which have
single and multi-line:
http://library.gnome.org/devel/atk/unstable/atk-AtkState.html#AtkStateType
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/javax/accessibility/AccessibleState.html
It is been a long time but the purpose for single line and multiple line
was to help ATs with Braille devices to know whether to break up the text,
by line , for a text field. Obviously, a text field that is single line is
rather easy to deal with. When You use mult-line you know to break up each
line of text by rows. This really that trivial for documents.
Rich Schwerdtfeger
CTO Accessibility Software Group
Inactive hide details for Carolyn MacLeod ---04/09/2010 04:52:07
PM---Isn't role pretty much always the first thing an AT asks Carolyn
MacLeod ---04/09/2010 04:52:07 PM---Isn't role pretty much always the
first thing an AT asks any accessible object?
Carolyn MacLeod
<[email protected]>
Sent by:
[email protected]
ndation.org To
David Bolter
04/09/2010 04:42 PM <[email protected]
om>
cc
accessibility-...@lis
ts.linuxfoundation.or
g
Subject
Re:
[Accessibility-ia2]
Deprecation of
IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE
Isn't role pretty much always the first thing an AT asks any accessible
object?
Carolyn
Re: [Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE
David Bolter
to:
accessibility-ia2
04/09/2010 03:11 PM
Sent by:
[email protected]
rg
The only concern I have is that Firefox has exposed it for a while;
although that doesn't necessarily stop deprecation. Also I think
Alexander's point is valid here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg00185.html
Is it perhaps easier for AT to just check the state bit, rather than the
role as well?
cheers,
David
On 09/04/10 2:33 PM, Carolyn MacLeod wrote:
Going once, going twice.... ?
I need to decide whether or not to delete the single-line state bit from
the Eclipse API before April 30.
Carolyn
From:
Pete Brunet <[email protected]>
To:
IA2 List <[email protected]>
Date:
26/03/2010 09:21 AM
Subject:
[Accessibility-ia2] Deprecation of IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE
Sent by:
[email protected]
The following is (slightly edited) from Carolyn, who is implementing IA2
in Eclipse...
Back in the fall, Andres asked why IA2 provides both IA2_STATE_MULTI_LINE
and IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE state bits.
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg00173.html
They would seem to be mutually exclusive, and having both takes up a
precious bit in the 32-bit strip.
Is there ever a case where an object can be neither single-line nor
multi-line?
Is there ever a case where an object can be both single-line and
multi-line?
In the conversation on the ia2 list, Jamie said that he had never even
noticed the single-line bit.
This is a possible source of error, for example if an application only
notices and sets/clears the "single" bit, but the AT only looks at the
"multi" bit.
The list discussion kind of ended with "oh well, whatever".
I propose deprecating IA2_STATE_SINGLE_LINE. Any objections?
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