Hi I will leave this thread with the final remarks.
1 I have been requesting the computer training centres to introduce narrator as a screen reader in their training programme. If it seems logical, take it or leave it. I do understand, the keystroke used is quite different from other screen readers and the existing computer users may not take the trouble for switch over. I have only been asking for the new users to be trained in Narator. I did not tell everyone to switch to narrator. 2 We can now tell application developers to check accessibility first hand on Narator as a standard screen reader. So far we could only ask them to use the commercial screen reader on a demo mode and the limitation of this approach is best understood by us than anybody else. NVDA was certainly a option. Many came back to me the voice is impossible. 3 Many work place have lots of restriction in downloading and installing applications. If one is trained in Narrator, it will save the day. 4 Many exams are now held online and here too there are umpteen restriction in installing applications. One who is conversant in narrator will find himself in a advantage. Consider this if it makes sense or simply forget it as rubbish Both ways it is fine with me. Finally, NVDA is my screen reader of choice and I use it a good deal. I do intent to devote time for Narator now. Harish. -----Original Message----- From: AccessIndia [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Prashant Ranjan Verma Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 11:13 PM To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled.' <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AI] Narrator as a screen reader come of age While I support development of the Narrator and hope that someday it will be as good as NVDA and Jaws with all advanced features, I am cautious because of the MacOS experience. The screen reader on iOS is great but on the desktop platform Mac is not the first choice of blind persons even in USA and Europe. On the desktop environment, a lot more features are required as compared to the mobile OS. Voiceover on Mac has not reached the level of Jaws and NVDA and to most the keystrokes are also very cumbersome to learn. For now the question an average user will ask are: Is Narrator better than NVDA? If not then why should I switch? Is Narrator supporting all my requirements like scanning books, word processing, presentations, call conferencing, Excel etc.? Is Narrator working with Indian languages like Hindi? is typing and editing fully supported in regional languages? Till the time the answer is yes to above questions, it is good to let the new users know about Narrator but train them on using NVDA only. Once people are good users of the computer, they can compare and choose for themselves. Actually they can use different screen readers for different requirements depending upon their strengths. And note that I am involved in the development of accessibility of Edge browser and thereby contributing a bit towards Windows accessibility. I have nothing against Microsoft. I also want operating systems to build complete accessibility eliminating the need to procure third party Assistive technology. thanks, Prashant -----Original Message----- From: AccessIndia [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vikas Kapoor Sent: 11 June 2018 21:56 To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AI] Narrator as a screen reader come of age Even in the Android OS, there are certain things which talkback is not able to perform while the same tasks are very well handled by Shine Plus, another very good screen reader for Android platform. Even I am also of the opinion that we should keep multiple screen readers handy, be it Windows or Android, to be able to cope with different types of challenges. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kotian, H P To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Narrator as a screen reader come of age Hi Prashant It was certainly Microsoft did not have technical challenges to make a good screen reader. I suppose because of IOS and Android, Microsoft got a realization, they could not hold it any more. To my understanding, they gave space for assistive technology companies to grow and compete. Now as it stands today all have withered away and this may be another factor for MS to reenter into this space. As I see narrator today, I think, MS will take narrator in full steam. The mood and inclination seems poised to provide 3rd party support. In my opinion computer training centres should onboard this development to make their course relevant and contextual. I would not really call it a set back to NVDA development. One can't have only one screen reader as a solution. There are occasions where one screen reader out performs another. It should be users choice where and when he chooses to use which screen reader. This can only be done when the choices are inherently rich enough in features and capabilities. I would consider it regressive if training centres do not make aware and provide suitable training even when screen reader is sufficiently capable. Although screen reader development is a tricky business, there should not be a forced cost to it. Accessibility should be inherently available to use the platform. Harish. -----Original Message----- From: AccessIndia [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Prashant Ranjan Verma Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 8:34 AM To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled.' <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AI] Narrator as a screen reader come of age Yes, Narrator has really improved by leaps and bounds. But I would still not recommend anyone to switch to it given that NVDA is also available free of cost. It needs to be seen if Microsoft continues to develop Narrator and more importantly if they put resources in supporting third party applications and develop advanced screen reader features. Also it needs to be seen if Microsoft allows users to customize it and build add-ons for different needs. If they continue to develop it over the next one or two years then I think NVDA usage will get a big setback. For now the super users can keep testing and evaluating it. -----Original Message----- From: AccessIndia [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Harish Kotian Sent: 10 June 2018 10:59 To: [email protected] Subject: [AI] Narrator as a screen reader come of age Hi All Narrator has really taken off ultimately in the latest update on Win10. I would urge all the computer training centers to focus on narrator as a screen reader. There are plenty of enhancements as a result of which it is now possible to switch to it as a primary screen reader. Although the key combinations are not intuitive one will have to invest sometime on it. To check if you are running the latest build of Win10, Run narrator and type the combination of caps+ a, a few times. If it keeps increasing the verbosity level, this can be a easy test. The old build had only two states as a toggle. A very unique feature which is new is that it can now describe any image using artificial intelligence. 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