We do not need preaching from people sitting in Austria, thank you. On 7/20/21, 'Mahendra Galani' via AccessIndia <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi All > i am surprise, that we have a member here, who in order to support > his political view, is justifying this inhuman approach. > > as Rahul said, we dont need enemy > , if we have such friend. > At 03:53 PM 7/20/2021 +0530, you wrote: >>Dear Friends, >> >>I too don't post often but what Rahul has written has compelled me to >>do so. I agree 100% with Rahul and believe that under no >>circumstances should this be allowed. In fact, if I understand the >>case law correctly, this can be challenged under Art. 21 of >>constitution as disabled children are negated. >> >>In fact, I am against ableism of all kinds: even when we are forced >>to behave in a particular manner though that may be inconvenient due >>to our disabilities as that is the norm in so-called able world, I am >>strongly against this. I don't like the use of "normal" word to >>describe people who are not disabled. We need not bring privilege or >>anything. If millions have problems bringing up disabled children, >>there are ample examples to show that disabled who are educated have >>done far better than their able-bodied siblings in lives and have >>helped their parents/siblings. In any case, population control cannot >>and should not be controlled by a law. Education and other measures >>could be brought in to do it. >> >>Ketan >> >>On 19/07/2021, Rahul Bajaj <[email protected]> wrote: >> > One of us is arguing that it is wrong to treat the disabled as being >> > inferior and nonexistent and as good as dead. The other is saying that >> > this >> > is totally okay. Why? Because in the real world, the disabled should >> > learn >> > to put up with their denigration and humiliation. And yet I am the one >> > showcasing privilege. >> > >> > Makes a great deal of sense. >> > >> > Rahul >> > >> > >> > Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> >> > ________________________________ >> > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> >> > on >> > behalf of Avichal Bhatnagar <[email protected]> >> > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 8:35:38 PM >> > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> >> > Subject: Re: [AI] The appalling ableism on display in S. 15 of the UP >> > Population Control Bill is Matched only by the even more appalling >> > ableism >> > on display in this group by those who should know better >> > >> > As far as I understand, all the above points come from someone having >> > a privileged position; the everyday realities faced by millions of >> > disabled are quite different and don't get reflected at all. >> > The only sensible point which I could decipher was that the exception >> > should be made only for those disabled who have a very high level of >> > disability which prevents them from living an independent life. >> > While I agree that we should of course strive towards demolishing >> > ablism in every form and at every step, yet we simply cannot live in a >> > utopian world and ignore the pragmatic circumstances. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 7/19/21, [email protected] <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> >> I do not regularly post in this group. However, after reading the >> >> discussion >> >> on S. 15 of the UP Population Control Bill, I felt compelled to speak. >> >> If >> >> we >> >> cannot collectively raise our voices against such blatant display of >> >> ableism >> >> and pure and simple discrimination, then we might as well shut this >> >> group >> >> down and go home. These words sound harsh, I know, but nothing less >> >> would >> >> suffice to respond to the insensitivity displayed by those supporting >> >> the >> >> provisions at issue. Here are my thoughts. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> First, please understand what this provision [S. 15] seeks to do. It >> >> seeks >> >> to inscribe into law a provision that would say that the rule that you >> >> can >> >> only have two children, created by this law, will not apply in the >> >> event >> >> that you have a disabled child. In such cases, you are entitled to >> >> have >> >> three children. In other words, the Bill says that a disabled child >> >> simply >> >> does not count as a child. It says that, as parents, you are entitled >> >> to >> >> a >> >> do over if a child with a disability is born to you. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Second, if the above does not constitute a frontal assault to the >> >> dignity >> >> of >> >> disabled bodies, I wonder what does. If the above provision does not >> >> negate >> >> the personhood of the disabled, I wonder what does. If the above >> >> provision >> >> does not inscribe into law the most horrific stereotypes about having >> >> a >> >> disability that we all seek to confront everyday in direct and >> >> indirect >> >> ways, I wonder what does. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Third, to say that the bill would have been criticized even if it did >> >> not >> >> have such a provision and hence we should just put up with our >> >> statutorily >> >> sanctioned humiliation and negation, I am sorry to say, reflects a way >> >> of >> >> thinking that is dismissive at best and appallingly discriminatory at >> >> worst. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Fourth, the claim that the criticism of the provision is only academic >> >> and >> >> is divorced from prevailing ground realities is an equally problematic >> >> view. >> >> It is true that many still view having a disabled child as a curse. >> >> That >> >> they feel that a disabled offspring will not be able to contribute >> >> productively. That she would be an undue burden. And that there is a >> >> need >> >> to >> >> have an able-bodied child to compensate for this deficit. However, the >> >> existence of this thought process is a reason for us to fight tooth >> >> and >> >> nail >> >> against any attempts to codify these beliefs into law. We must do >> >> everything >> >> we can to interrogate, contest and dismantle this type of thinking. >> >> Not >> >> put >> >> our weight behind those who seek to legitimize it by inscribing it >> >> into >> >> law. >> >> In other words, the ground realities that one member speaks of are the >> >> very >> >> reason why we should fight back against this provision. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Fifth, as another member points out, the selfsame arguments that are >> >> being >> >> deployed to support this provision have been used in the past to >> >> support >> >> attempts to kill the girl child. Many facts of life that confront us >> >> in >> >> everyday life are horrendous and unfortunate. That is no reason to >> >> defend >> >> a >> >> law that seeks to sanction these unfortunate realities. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sixth, as disabled people who strive everyday to realize our full >> >> potential >> >> and to break down the barriers standing in our way, it is profoundly >> >> sad >> >> that some of us are willing to unhesitatingly subscribe to the >> >> stereotypes >> >> that this provision embodies. Do we really think that a disabled life >> >> matters less? That a disabled person cannot contribute productively? >> >> That >> >> they cannot do as well as, if not surpass, their able-bodied siblings? >> >> To >> >> the extent that this is so, isn't the society we inhabit also to blame >> >> for >> >> the disabled not realizing their full potential? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lastly, granted, some children may actually be born with disabilities >> >> that >> >> are so severe and limiting that they may not be able to lead lives of >> >> productivity or a life without significant pain. Even if we accept for >> >> a >> >> moment that a deviation from the two child norm would be okay in such >> >> cases, >> >> that is not what this bill does. The provision does not deal with >> >> disabilities meeting such a high bar. It applies to those with all 21 >> >> disabilities covered by the 2016 Act, irrespective of their impact on >> >> the >> >> disabled child. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I will conclude with the painful observation that the ableism >> >> displayed >> >> by >> >> the disabled sometimes surpasses that exhibited by the able-bodied. >> >> With >> >> friends like these, who needs enemies? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Rahul >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Disclaimer: >> >> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking >> >> of >> >> the >> >> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its >> >> veracity; >> >> >> >> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the >> >> mails >> >> sent through this mailing list.. >> >> >> >> >> >> Search for old postings at: >> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> >> --- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups >> >> "AccessIndia" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> >> an >> >> email to [email protected]. >> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> >> >> https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/000501d77c15%24d135a430%2473a0ec90%24%40gmail.com. >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Avichal Bhatnagar >> > Assistant Professor at >> > Department of English, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Khalsa College >> > University of Delhi >> > >> > Doctoral research scholar at >> > School of Humanities, >> > Delhi Technological University (formerly Delhi College of Engineering) >> > >> > -- >> > Disclaimer: >> > 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the >> thinking of the >> > person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its >> > veracity; >> > >> > 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the >> > mails >> > sent through this mailing list.. >> > >> > >> > Search for old postings at: >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> > --- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups >> > "AccessIndia" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> > an >> > email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > >> https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/CADsKw8rS17TQJF293-MhRM5KA38DzxeX8WkpgkMwPt9Hwjo7ww%40mail.gmail.com. >> > >> > -- >> > Disclaimer: >> > 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the >> thinking of the >> > person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its >> > veracity; >> > >> > 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the >> > mails >> > sent through this mailing list.. >> > >> > >> > Search for old postings at: >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> > --- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups >> > "AccessIndia" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> > an >> > email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > >> https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/PS2P216MB1155D606725F58A5DA6C02B5A6E19%40PS2P216MB1155.KORP216.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM. >> > >> >> >>-- >>Ketan Kothari >>Phone: [r] 02228283281, >>Cell: +919987550614 >>+917021054612 >>Facebook: facebook.com/muktaketan >>Twitter: @muktaketan >>Skype ID: Ketan3333 >> >>-- >>Disclaimer: >>1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the >>thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates >>itself to its veracity; >> >>2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the >>mails sent through this mailing list.. >> >> >>Search for old postings at: >>http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>--- >>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>Groups "AccessIndia" group. >>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>send an email to [email protected]. >>To view this discussion on the web visit >>https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/CAC4kLWWThK_Qxe1panb85m-s8QN_u1dANBwTDQ_5deHbk2p7Hg%40mail.gmail.com. > > > > with warm regards > Mahendra Galani > Whatsapp/Viber/Skype/Imo/Facetime +43 699 174 555 95 > Festnetz +43 1 961 77 47 > Addresse, Arneth gasse 45/2/2 > 1160 Vienna, Austria, Europe > > > > -- > Disclaimer: > 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the > person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; > > 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails > sent through this mailing list.. > > > Search for old postings at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "AccessIndia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/20210720171501.5rSXmQALTA9Im5rSXm6o3u%40vie01a-pemc-psmtp-pe11.mail.upcmail.net. >
-- Avichal Bhatnagar Assistant Professor at Department of English, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Khalsa College University of Delhi Doctoral research scholar at School of Humanities, Delhi Technological University (formerly Delhi College of Engineering) -- Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "AccessIndia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/CADsKw8pAtPe9ojmAe6fvxW-Zoo5FusGLZqkDhhZGMLz%2BpVJcjQ%40mail.gmail.com.
