Hi Ritesh,
The point that you have raised – of what we can do to ensure that this provision does not become law – is really the central issue that we should be devoting all our attention to. TO that end, I am currently writing an op-ed which, I am hopeful, will be picked up by a leading national newspaper. I also believe that the UP law Commission is currently inviting suggestions on the bill. So it would pay to submit a representation to them. Further, we should see if the UN Special Rapporteur on the CRPD can be requested to issue a statement on this provision, though that seems like a longshot. We should also ensure that we tap into our networks in the television industry to get this captured on a news channel with a large viewership. Finally, if it does become law, it can always be challenged in court. And I will definitely do that, if it comes down to it. Rahul From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ritesh Agarwal Sent: 22 July 2021 13:01 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AI] The appalling ableism on display in S. 15 of the UP Population Control Bill is Matched only by the even more appalling ableism on display in this group by those who should know better Hello everyone! Disclaimer: It is a long mail. It seemed to me that there are atleast 2 school of thoughts on UP Population Control Bill. One talks about idealism and the other talks of reality. As said in one of the previous mails, there are or would be many parents who do considered PWDs as inferiors than non PWDs. There are many reasons to this and this is not only prevalent in lower- or middle-income families but to some extent in rich families; in case the parents are uninformed about the developments that helps a PWD to live a full or partial independent life. However, if this biasness towards PWD by parents or society would be a ground to have more children than the question is that if having a 3rd child would be of any beneficial to PWD child or if 3rd child would change the mentality of the parents or society. My personal opinion is that if parents having PWD child is allowed to have 3rd child it would not help anyone. On the other hand, if such parents are not allowed to have 3rd child, then also it is of no benefit to the PWD child unless the parent’s mindset are changed, they should be informed and provided assistance to upbring their child. In addition to this, I have some points to highlight which are as follows: * It is good that this group allows to have a discussion on sensitive issues. However, I wonder only discussing in this group would give any outcome in such matters. Hence, I want to know if people providing opinion on this issue have taken any concrete steps in their individual capacity or collectively to alter the provision of this law. I am asking this because, I guess people commenting on this topic are successful in many senses and would have many connections either in NGOs or otherwise. * It would be of great help if someone would let me know if there had been such discussions on other states population control bill. I believe Assam had recently pass such bill and currently there are many states having such similar laws. I am asking this because I have joined this group recently. * Last but not the least, it seemed that people here in this group are trying to impose his/her views on others. I believe that everyone views should be welcomed and one should try to make some sense of non-aligned views as there might be some reasons behind such views. Look forward to some reply. Kind Regards Ritesh Agarwal On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 12:23 PM 'Mahendra Galani' via AccessIndia <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: (Really I was not interested in this useless arguements) useless arguements? if this is thinkinng of our member, no need to discuss further. idea of this bill is population control, with above attitude , best way to control population, is kill all disabled of UP, wiche most be at list 10 % of UP populations. 11:40 >AM 7/22/2021 +0530, you wrote: >Really I was not interested in this useless arguements, but writing in >law and the ground reality regarding Disabled children the perspective >is totally different, Mr.Bajaj I hope you belong to well rich family >so for your support there might be many servants so you don't feel so >much but ask the disabled persons who belong to middle and lower >middle family how they are treated at home and in society, so many >parants are not so favour to disabled children, and because of that >purpose disabled word is used in utter pradesh family planning bill, >anybody may criticise anything but the ground reality is totally >different. > >On 7/21/21, Avichal Bhatnagar <[email protected] ><mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: > > My friend, since I find your write up to be quite well structured and > > put with civility, therefore I am putting below a few observations: > > 1. Privilege is when one doesn't know the daily challenges being faced > > by someone, and they just indulge in academic jargon. Such a point of > > view, no matter how good academically, is totally devoid of the real > > picture, hence it fails to solve any problem. > > Being a person with hundred percent visual impairment, I can vouch > > from my personal experience that ablism has not been demolished in > > anyway, it has just been made clandestine. > > As a disabled, I would be the first one to advocate for a world free > > of the same, but the daily experience which not just me but countless > > others have paint a completely different picture. > > I might sound too pessimistic here, but what I have experienced is > > that the world looks towards the disabled either for inspiration, or > > because they are bound by certain norms or laws. > > Forget the binary of the disabled vs the nondisabled, I can show you > > chasm within the disability sector itself. > > From my experience as a student in various universities of Delhi, I > > have observed that their is no united clarion call for ending the so > > called ablism, but each category of disability is trying to out do the > > other. > > I agree that the bar of disability for this provision needs to be kept > > high, but if we say that such a provision shouldn't be there at all > > will be highly unfair. > > It is because unlike the other margenalised sections such as women, > > SC's and ST's, we disabled are politically nonexistent. > > Who would ensure that the disabled child, if born within the ambit of > > the two child policy will not be constantly harassed? > > Take a survey of any blind school, and you will find that the attitude > > of a large number of parents towards their blind offspring is > > extremely cold; won't it aggravate the problem? > > Those who believe that laws, and only laws are enough to solve any and > > every problem should introspect that why do those issues still remain > > in the society, for which we have stringent laws for the passed few > > decades? > > While I strongly believe that we must strive to break the > > stereotypical barriers at every step, but we must also not surround > > ourselves with a cocoon of utopia. > > Hope my position is clear to one and all. > > > > On 7/21/21, Tony Kurian <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > > wrote: > >> Hello, > >> > >> I am not someone who posts here regularly but I think I would be > >> abdicating my responsibility as a person with disability if I do not > >> state my views on the UP population bill. > >> > >> At the outset, let me be clear that Sec 15 of the bill is ableist and > >> is discriminatory towards persons with disability. As Rahul observed, > >> the bill is giving legal credence to an ableist mindset that signals > >> to society that it is totally cool not to count your child with > >> disability as a productive member. As the discussion here has brought > >> out important points, let me restrict myself to a few observations. > >> To state that ableism exists on ground hence the ableist provisions of > >> the bill need no opposition is extremely problematic. That some of our > >> members have opted for a political submission rather than asking the > >> right questions and expose the ableism contained in the bill > >> demonstrates internalised ableism. The job of disability rights > >> activists (hoping that everyone participating here identifies as one) > >> is to oppose ableism on all fronts. The task at hand for us is to show > >> how the bill encourages an ableist mindset and humiliates the dignity > >> of persons with disability. > >> > >> Secondly, to call any opposition to the bill as “privilege†is a > >> deliberate attempt to obfuscate the ableism in the bill. As a person > >> with disability, if I am talking to a poor person from rural UP about > >> the ableism in the bill, I am not being privileged. Put differently, > >> privilege is context specific. > >> > >> Thirdly, the so-called pragmatic circumstances are continuously > >> evolving and are amenable to change. We are here because a few > >> individuals before us decided to change the ground reality and > >> pragmatic circumstances by striving to opposing ableism. What would > >> have happened if they had decided not to fight, because ableism is a > >> ground reality, right? > >> > >> It is a matter of happiness that organizations like NPRD have come > >> forward with a clear position on this and hope more organizations join > >> them in this. We should rightfully demand the government to remove Sec > >> 15 and instead focus on increasing life opportunity for persons with > >> disability. Rather than denigrating the dignity of persons with > >> disability, government should focus on measures which will encourage > >> parents to view their children with disability in a much more positive > >> light. Put simply, I would like my parents to see me as a person with > >> dignity and I would like every person with disability to feel the > >> same. > >> regards, > >> Tony > >> > >> On 21/07/2021, 'Mahendragalani' via AccessIndia > >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > >> wrote: > >>> Hello my young friend, wrong word, it is not preaching from Austria, but > >>> observation. I have also observed in the past, when you don’t find any > >>> sensible argument, you start, in my case like preaching from Austria. > >>> Last > >>> time around, you are making fun of someone, who made spelling mistakes. > >>> Me > >>> you can Tryon criticize about being in Austria, however what will you > >>> say, > >>> to Rahul and Ketan who are very much in India? > >>> > >>> Mahendra Galani, With warm regards. Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>>> On 21.07.2021, at 09:53, Avichal Bhatnagar <[email protected] > >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> > > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> We do not need preaching from people sitting in Austria, thank you. > >>>> > >>>>> On 7/20/21, 'Mahendra Galani' via AccessIndia > >>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >>>>> > wrote: > >>>>> Hi All > >>>>> i am surprise, that we have a member here, who in order to support > >>>>> his political view, is justifying this inhuman approach. > >>>>> > >>>>> as Rahul said, we dont need enemy > >>>>> , if we have such friend. > >>>>> At 03:53 PM 7/20/2021 +0530, you wrote: > >>>>>> Dear Friends, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I too don't post often but what Rahul has written has compelled me to > >>>>>> do so. I agree 100% with Rahul and believe that under no > >>>>>> circumstances should this be allowed. In fact, if I understand the > >>>>>> case law correctly, this can be challenged under Art. 21 of > >>>>>> constitution as disabled children are negated. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> In fact, I am against ableism of all kinds: even when we are forced > >>>>>> to behave in a particular manner though that may be inconvenient due > >>>>>> to our disabilities as that is the norm in so-called able world, I am > >>>>>> strongly against this. I don't like the use of "normal" word to > >>>>>> describe people who are not disabled. We need not bring privilege or > >>>>>> anything. If millions have problems bringing up disabled children, > >>>>>> there are ample examples to show that disabled who are educated have > >>>>>> done far better than their able-bodied siblings in lives and have > >>>>>> helped their parents/siblings. In any case, population control > >>>>>> cannot > >>>>>> and should not be controlled by a law. Education and other measures > >>>>>> could be brought in to do it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Ketan > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 19/07/2021, Rahul Bajaj <[email protected] > >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: > >>>>>>> One of us is arguing that it is wrong to treat the disabled as being > >>>>>>> inferior and nonexistent and as good as dead. The other is saying > >>>>>>> that > >>>>>>> this > >>>>>>> is totally okay. Why? Because in the real world, the disabled should > >>>>>>> learn > >>>>>>> to put up with their denigration and humiliation. And yet I am the > >>>>>>> one > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Disclaimer: > >>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of > >>> the > >>> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; > >>> > >>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the > >>> mails > >>> sent through this mailing list.. > >>> > >>> > >>> Search for old postings at: > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > >>> --- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>> Groups > >>> "AccessIndia" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >>> an > >>> email to [email protected] > >>> <mailto:accessindia%[email protected]> . > >>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >>> > https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/CABC6842-FB77-4751-9187-87C879583D53%40chello.at. > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> Disclaimer: > >> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of > >> the > >> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; > >> > >> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the > >> mails > >> sent through this mailing list.. > >> > >> > >> Search for old postings at: > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > >> --- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "AccessIndia" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > >> email to [email protected] > >> <mailto:accessindia%[email protected]> . > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> > https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/CAB0hRFWPqybsBwQrevZ4T6jxnRA9j2xuGLwCgB4Ao7kyJob9tA%40mail.gmail.com. > >> > > > > > > -- > > Avichal Bhatnagar > > Assistant Professor at > > Department of English, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Khalsa College > > University of Delhi > > > > Doctoral research scholar at > > School of Humanities, > > Delhi Technological University (formerly Delhi College of Engineering) > > > > -- > > Disclaimer: > > 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or > otherwise, reflect the thinking of the > > person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; > > > > 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails > > sent through this mailing list.. > > > > > > Search for old postings at: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "AccessIndia" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [email protected] > > <mailto:accessindia%[email protected]> . > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/CADsKw8p5mPaXWV1ATGm0_LYyP0AL4tGVs9FN3GE_ObNAuTCMMw%40mail.gmail.com. > > > > >-- > >Vivek Doddamani Ph-9868954833 & 7011740648 skype: vivek.doddamani, >FB: vivek doddamani. 105, Lancer Road, Near Mall Road, Delhi-110054. > >-- >Disclaimer: >1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, >reflect the thinking of the person sending the >mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; > >2. AI cannot be held liable for any >commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. > > >Search for old postings at: >http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >--- >You received this message because you are >subscribed to the Google Groups "AccessIndia" group. >To unsubscribe from this group and stop >receiving emails from it, send an email to >[email protected] ><mailto:accessindia%[email protected]> . >To view this discussion on the web visit >https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/CANYGqbih3djw%2BMryAOH40zj8s_e_a0YYocwKBRTitOY6GG%3D_Mw%40mail.gmail.com. with warm regards Mahendra Galani Whatsapp/Viber/Skype/Imo/Facetime +43 699 174 555 95 Festnetz +43 1 961 77 47 Addresse, Arneth gasse 45/2/2 1160 Vienna, Austria, Europe -- Disclaimer: 1. 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