Let me tell you that I am not at all over enthuziastic about it.And if my points appear to you as immatured, then either I do not reach upto your maturity level or you do not reach to my maturity level. Again talking about logic, I understand the purpose of photograph as said by Sameer bhaiya also but there also I am not doing any wrong when I say that sometimes our eyes clearly indicates our disability. So I don't feel that my logic is baseless. Neither highlighting the disability too much and nor hiding the disability is going to help us. So we need to be balanced about it.
Neither you are hurting to me and nor I am trying to hurt you.We all are expressing our opinions which comes under right to free expression as provided by Constitution of India. However while expressing the opinion we should bare in mind that our presentation should be good. Sometimes our selection of words clearly convey the wrong message. As far as my lengthy mail is concerned, I am not trying to give any lecture but it is a matter of regret that even after reading my long mail which clearly brings out my thoughts and intention you could not understand my point of view. Having said all that, I would like to tell you that I do have deep respect for your views, and I also expect the same from you. And not only you, I respect everybody's opinion, but at the other side I respect my opinion also. I have no problem if our views do not match, because every coign has two sides. Let me also make it clear that I have never had the intention to prove you or anyone else wrong. Its just that I am expressing my views.
At the end, let me thank you since you are convinced from my logic. Regards Amar Jain. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Sameer" <sala...@gawab.com> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 5:47 PM To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> Subject: Re: [AI] disability and census
Dear Friend,Our eyes may appear similar to the eyes of sighted people but the white cane we carry tells the world that we are blind. Refusing to mention our disability on the census form does not hide our blindness but tells the sighted world that we are uneasy about our blindness, that we are uncomfortable with it.About the photograph, the photograph's main purpose is not to show whether a person is disabled or not but just to provide an easily recognisable proof of identity.And refusing to mention blindness on the census form & still demanding a separate disability card smacks of hypocrisy. It tells the society at large that we are unlike them & are ashamed of the difference & choose to hide it.I would like all blind & disabled friends to mention the fact of disability on the census forms so that accurate data on disability can be gathered. Also, remember that the census data will be used to create the National Population Registry which is expected to form the backbone of the Unique Identity Card. Refusing to mention disability in the census could result in the disability not being mentioned in the Unique Identity card & excluding you from any concessions provided by government authorities.Regards Mr. Sameer Latey, Mumbai, India----- Original Message ----- From: "jignesh thakur" <jigneshthaku...@gmail.com>To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [AI] disability and census Hi, A Fantastic logic. I am convinced by the logic. But frankly speaking by so called logic and lengthy mail it is possible to prove our immature points, and we can easily prove other people wrong the points of vamshisir expectable at some extent. One more thing, there are many visually impaired persons including me whose eyes are as normal as any sighted person, so the logic of photograph is simply baseless. You intelligent people may be right on your stand, but over enthusiasm will definitely damage us... logic is other thing than harsh reality. Just keeping highlighted board of disability will not going to help us in any way. Really sorry if somebody is hurt. Thanks. On 4/18/10, Amar Jain <amarjain2...@gmail.com> wrote:Dear All, Well in my view including the disability in no way stops us from getting what we want. The views of Rahul bhaiya represents today's bad political situation in the case of minorities. Where as the views of few others are that we will be discriminated just because we are disabled. There was another view represented by someone that even if we apply for something and if the 'sensible' persons sitting their to look into the applications come to know that we are disabled our forms will be rejected. I respect everyone's views, and there is nothing wrong in saying what you want to say. Well dealing with discrimination, I am unable to understand that just because it is written on the card that we are disabled how come we will be discriminated? If it is a discrimination why we do possess medical certificate? Before anyone comes up and say that 'boss medical certificate is required where you specifically want to show that you are disabled and not in general situations'. Wav! I am impressed by your intelligence. Absolutely right. Now when we consider general situations why people will consider our disability when it is not required to do so? And even if they do then how they will deny us the basic things after knowing that we are disabled? Just tell me, that almost everywhere when we require any facility for which we have to fill any form, we fix a photograph on the form. Am I right? If yes, then if I restrict myself at least to visual impairment then generally it is clear from your photograph that you have vision problem. Note my word 'generally'. Then, are you denied the facilities? Lets take pan card for that matter? I think no. So I don't feel that there will be any discrimination. Including disability on the card will just show that you are disabled. You will not be discriminated because of that, however people will come to know that you are disabled then generally you will have their sympethy in India at least. That we already do get whenver any person comes to know about our disability. The only fact which we need to accept that if someone calls us disabled or if someone knows that we are disabled then we should not feel that we are infirior or we are discriminated. Lets accept the fact. And who stops you from showing your caliver in the society? Ultimately your performance will take away the sympathetic attitude of people. I would also like to say that when we say that including disability colunm on the card will be the reason of rejecting our application. Specially demat example was given. Tell me, that even today we are facing this problem. Today also many a times our forms get rejected because lack of awareness amongst brokers etc about the guidelines. Today also we need to convince them by showing them the guidelines and our talent of course. Today also we need to find out that our forms are being rejected. Then only we can take any step of meeting them etc. The things which we are doing now from overcoming of these problems,can be done at that time. UID does not stop us from doing that. We are talking about multipurpose eye-card instead of including disability on UID card.But if we are to have such card, then why not let it be on UID card itself?The best advantage of having this in UID database is that we will not need to follow another lengthy process of getting multipurpose Icard and one card will serve all the purposes. The second advantage of this will be that since disability will be recognized in UID itself we will not need to do any lengthy documentations. Which I can presume that will be added in case of multipurpose card. **I don't say that don't get multipurpose card so persons working on that project don't take me in wrong sense** Still we are faced with many difficulties, which we are overcoming either by ourselves or by the efforts of experts of our field who give their sincere efforts to get the guidelines created. The problem of railway concession the problem of no uniform format in concessions will be taken away by this card itself. I think that this UID project will make our task easier instead of making it difficult. And I think it is very sensible step to include disability in the card itself. And by the way, we are discussing here that we should not include disability then if all agree that it shouldn't be included, then are we going to talk with UID authorities who have already taken this sensible step? However I don't know that how UID will deal with temporary disableds. This is not at all counter reply, these are just and just my personal views. I respect everyone's wisdom. Regards Amar Jain. On 4/18/10, amalesh Kumar <kumar_amal...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:dear all,disability is neither a sin nor a crime, no point in hiding it, i agree towhat mr. vamshi says. regards kumar amalesh Asstt. Administrative Officer LIC --- On Sun, 18/4/10, Vamshi. G <gvamsh...@gmail.com> wrote: From: Vamshi. G <gvamsh...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [AI] disability and census To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Date: Sunday, 18 April, 2010, 12:41 PM Hi, We all are seeing with how much interest the government is pursuing any work when it is related exclusively to the disabled. So, I doubt the possibility of a multipurpose disability card being issued at the national level. Caste, religion etc. can't be identified without a certificate, but disability can be identified by the very presence of the person. So, I don't know how and why we want to hide this aspect. Coming to denial of services,even now, we can't escape from being discriminated because there has to be a personal interaction for availing those services. And in the recent past, we've seen some cases wherein we've been successful in availing these services. And Rahul sir, correcting you is a far away thing, first let me understand you, honestly, I didn't get your exact intent when you emphasised so much on my option of availing benefits. So, please educate me in that area, either on the list or off the list. I personally feel having disability on the UID card is one form of inclusiveness. -- G. Vamshi PH Res : +91 877-2243861 Mobile: +91 9949349497 E-mail ID: gvamsh...@gmail.com Skype: gvamshi81 www.retinaindia.org >From darkness unto light On 4/18/10, jignesh thakur <jigneshthaku...@gmail.com> wrote:Sir, In our country many people consider disability as like asirias crime. There is a question of expectance, if the disability would menssion on the card, our lots of application and other things will rejected automatically. We live in the country where people have not much respect for disable person. My point is that the disability on the card will not give us a chanse to prove ourself at many places. For example once I submitted my documents for trading account, the company expected it willingly, but when we had face to face meeting for formalities, he realized that I am visually impaired person, and he suddenly rejected my application. How ever I could convince him to give me his services. If I had produced disability card at that time the result might have different. That’s why I am against it. Though vamshisir and other are more intelligent they can thing far better than me. I am just writing my thoughts. Thanks. On 4/17/10, rahul cherian <rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com> wrote:Let me put it this way. Would you be ok if your religion or you caste wereon the UID? What if you are a minority community living in a state likeGujarat and riots like the Godhra riots happened? Would you want to be easily identified based on your religion? My concern with disability beingone of the parameters is something similar. I am sure this comes acrossas me being paranoid but I think that having disability as one of the parameters could lead to abuse of the information to the detriment of persons with disabilities.Vamshi, what you want is a multipurpose certificate of disability whichyoucan use, at your option, I repeat, at your option to avail of benefits.I confess that I have not done much research into this area so please correct me if I am wrong. Cheers, Rahul On 17 April 2010 22:25, Vamshi. G <gvamsh...@gmail.com> wrote:But if having disability as one of the fields in the UID exempts me from carrying a separate disability certificate, railway concession certificate, bus travel concession card etc. , and enables me to book all tickets on line by providingthe UID number, and I'm provided with all the benefits I'm entitled towithout me requiring to go through the cumbersome procedures, I would rather prefer to have it. -- G. Vamshi PH Res : +91 877-2243861 Mobile: +91 9949349497 E-mail ID: gvamsh...@gmail.com Skype: gvamshi81 www.retinaindia.org >From darkness unto light On 4/17/10, rahul cherian <rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com> wrote: > I think that having disability as one of the fields in the UID will > be> violative of my right to privacy and could lead to discrimination. > I> am > against it. > > On 17 April 2010 20:44, ashik <ashikhir...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear Friend, >> >> Only because it will serve as an all-in-all identity card. We will >> not >> have >> carry different cards for different purposes. Sypanthy is not an >> issue at >> all. >> >> - - - >> Ashik Hirani >> Landline phone: 02849-242233 >> Skype: ashikali.hirani >> I would prefer flowers on my table rather than diamonds in my >> necklace. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jignesh thakur" < >> jigneshthaku...@gmail.com> >> >> To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> >> Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 4:03 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [AI] disability and census >> >> >> Friends, >> This is just my opinion. Why we want to include disability in uid >> card? Our identity is only disability? Lots of will have to suffer >> because of the label disable on the card. General information is >> enough. To mansion disability is just issue. And it will only for >> meaningless sympathy.>> Let me tell you again this is just my opinion. I don’t want to >> hurt >> anybody. There are lots of intelligent friends are on the list, >> and>> they know more than me. >> Thanks. >> >> >> On 4/17/10, ashik <ashikhir...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Yes doctor. I think disability must be mentioned in the proposed >>> UID >>> card. >>> And I regret to say that the procedure for the UID card does not include >>> the >>> mention of disability. So, it can be safely concluded that >>> disability >>> will >>> not be mentioned in the UID card. It's a sad story indeed. Proper >>> representation should be maded to the government and we should pressurize >>> it >>> to include disability as one of the thins in the UID card. >>> - - - >>> Ashik Hirani >>> Landline phone: 02849-242233 >>> Skype: ashikali.hirani >>> I would prefer flowers on my table rather than diamonds in my >>> necklace. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dr Jalaja" <jalajakumar...@gmail.com> >>> To: "accessindia" <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> >>> Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:33 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AI] disability and census >>> >>> >>> Hello sir, >>>> I am also wondering why the list members are >>>> remaining>>>> silent in this matter. .Let us wait and see what will happen >>>> after>>>> completing all the procedures, and when things are out of our >>>> hands >>>> nothing can be done . it is better to take proper notification >>>> right now >>>> With regards--------Dr.Jalaja >>>> >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in >>>> with the subject unsubscribe. >>>> >>>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other >>>> changes, >>>> please visit the list home page at >>>> >>>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> To unsubscribe send a message to >>> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith >>> the subject unsubscribe. >>> >>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other >>> changes, >>> please >>> visit the list home page at >>> >>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in >>> >>> >> >> >> To unsubscribe send a message to>> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject >> unsubscribe.>> >> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other >> changes, >> please visit the list home page at >> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe send a message to>> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject >> unsubscribe.>> >> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other >> changes, >> please visit the list home page at >> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in >> > > > To unsubscribe send a message to > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith > the subject unsubscribe. >> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other > changes,please > visit the list home page at > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in > To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject unsubscribe. 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