Hi Brian, and all.

please read my entire response.

On Saturday 23 Apr 2011 22:22:13 Brian Fraser wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Marilyn Sander, Ken Armstrong <
> marilyn-san...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > The F-bomb is totally unnecessary.  Such language is for teenagers who do
> > not yet know how to communicate displeasure effectively.  Please grow up.
> > Personally, I am finding this discussion fascinating.  I have often
> > wondered why the "academics" at IBM would attack each other's
> > presentations.
> > 
> >  It appears that part of the process of getting a PhD is learning to give
> > 
> > and take intense attacks.  This discussion is most enlightening.
> > Marilyn
> > 
> "There ought to be a room in every house to swear in. It's dangerous to
> have to repress an emotion like that." Mark Twain.

Well, there's a difference between repressing emotion (which is saying "No! I 
am not feeling this way now") and realising you're feeling something and 
acting in a rational manner in accordance or opposite the emotion. I many 
times was frustrated at open source software applications having annoying bugs 
and thought with many F-words and curse words, but when phrasing the bug 
report, I phrased it politely, rationally, and factually (not always though, 
of course). 

Emotions are nature's guidelines, and should not be repressed, and one should 
not feel guilty for feeling anything (Sermon on the Mount/etc. put aside), 
including not a desire for murder and mayhem. But acting based on these 
emotions by words or deed may not be a good idea.

You could have phrased yourself more calmly.

> It's part of the language, whenever you like it or not. Again, please look
> beyond the tone and see the substance of the psot - The swearing was there
> exactly to demonstrate that a few strong words shouldn't matter in your
> appreciation of a message.
> I guess that misfired, though.

One thing I agree is that this meta-discussion reduces the 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal-to-noise_ratio of beginn...@perl.org , 
because it is of little interest to people seeking help with Perl or those 
wanting to help them. As a result, I suggest moving it to advocacy@perl.org 
(or maybe beginners-c...@perl.org or possibly perl-c...@perl.org , if Ask and 
friends will be kind enough to set it up (modelled after the haskell-cafe 
concept, where discussions are moved from the main haskell mailing list). 
Anyone can send an email to advocacy@perl.org , even if they are not 
subscribed and everyone can subscribe to it by sending an email to 
advocacy-subscr...@perl.org . Anyway, it was a good place to discuss social 
issues in the past, and it's very quiet now so I don't think people will mind 
the action. 

So pleaase subscribe to advocacy@perl.org and de-CC beginn...@perl.org .


        Shlomi Fish

Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
Funny Anti-Terrorism Story - http://shlom.in/enemy

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_sink .

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