Well it so happens I have read Van Gogh's letters - with great
interest. I also own a copy. I don't think 'the desire to connect with
an audience' is a hugely prominent feature. In any case, 'connecting
with an audience' is not what I was talking about.

If my memory serves me, Monet, while he had a long career, spent many
long years in poverty in the earlier stages, with a wife and family to
support.

Re" the feel-good sensation Derek seems to assume from Cheerskep.'

My original response - about 'satisfaction' - was not if I recall in
response to a post from Cheerskep.   But I do think that a widespread
view about the function of art is that it is intended to foster
feel-good feelings.  The very word 'aesthetic' - which is so
hopelessly ambiguous as I have often said - lends itself to this idea
(with connotations of the 'aesthete' etc)

DA
> I recommend reading Van Gogh's Letters to Theo.  If
> ever there was an artist who longed to connect with an
> audience it was Van Gogh. As for Monet, he always had
> an audience, at first among painters, writers, and a
> few supporters (including his family).  He had a most
> successful, long career.
>
> Satisfaction of the aesthetic sort is much more than
> the feel-good sensation Derek seems to assume from
> Cheerskep.  The great art is a life-death paradox, the
> sublime.  Even the happy Impressionists were
> interested in the paradox --the elusive, fickle, dying
> moment, not that far really, from the content of the
> Dutch still life painters.
>
> WC
>
>
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Derek, two of the reasons you're so unrewarding to
>> discuss things with are
>> your inability to grasp the point of what the other
>> fellow is saying, and your
>> irrepressible impulse to say nay.
>>
>> Look again at what I wrote. Try to see I was
>> focusing on why the CREATOR does
>> what he does, and on his feeling as he does it. Yes,
>> there is a second
>> satisfaction that can come to him from realizing he
>> has afforded people what
>> you
>> have called a "response to art". And I myself don't
>> feel that's a silly,
>> valueless effect that trivializes any artist who
>> takes satisfaction if he does
>> it.
>>
>> But, believe it, the first satisfaction comes during
>> the creating, from the
>> creating, when you believe you have "nailed" it.
>>
>> You can't even wrap your mind around what YOU are
>> saying. The logic of your
>> use of Van Gogh is so deranged it's breathtaking.
>> You believe you have made a
>> rebutting thrust by citing him as a reduction ad
>> absurdum example, because you
>> apparently think what I wrote implies I must
>> foolishly believe Van Gogh "went
>> through years of non-recognition and poverty just so
>> some Sunday afternoon
>> aesthete could feel a delicate pulse of 'aesthetic
>> pleasure' and feel
>> 'satisfied'."
>>
>> You don't see that the example of Van Gogh doesn't
>> refute my point, instead
>> it is marvelously consonant with my point? He NEVER
>> had the experience of
>> knowing he had occasioned an a.e. in a "Sunday
>> afternoon aesthete", he never
>> sold a
>> painting in his life, so why would I think that was
>> what moved him to go on
>> for years doing what he did? Exactly my point is
>> that the first, the primary,
>> motivation in a creator is the "passion and
>> satisfaction" that comes during,
>> and from, the act of creating.
>>
>> Samuel Johnson wrote, "No man but a blockhead ever
>> wrote, except for money."
>> Again, a true "non-artist" talking about an activity
>> he had no personal
>> experience with at all.
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 6/4/08 4:15:09 PM,
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>>
>>
>> > Interesting.  But do we really think artists like
>> Van Gogh, Monet,
>> > Cezanne and so many others went through years of
>> non-recognition or
>> > poverty or both just so some Sunday afternoon
>> aesthete could feel a
>> > delicate pulse of 'aesthetic pleasure' and feel
>> 'satisfied'.
>> >
>> > Yuk!
>> >
>> > DA
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 10:08 PM,
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > > In a message dated 6/4/08 3:00:14 PM,
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> I think the idea that art 'satisfies' is silly
>> anyway. It is linked to
>> > >> the idea that art exists merely to be a source
>> of 'pleasure'. Who but
>> > >> the stereotype 'aesthete' thinks that any
>> longer?
>> > >>
>> > > Spoken like a true "non-artist", someone who has
>> never had the experience
>> > of
>> > > creating the kinds of works most of us are
>> devoted to.
>> > >
>> > > Critics, sociologists, moralists, leaders of
>> "movements" -- they all
>> would
>> > > tell creators what they "ought" to be doing,
>> what their "purpose" should
>> > be,
>> > > what their "function" is. Luckily, worthy
>> creative passion and
>> > satisfaction is
>> > > deaf to all that.
>> >
>>
>>
>> **************
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>>
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>> NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
>
>



-- 
Derek Allan
http://www.home.netspeed.com.au/derek.allan/default.htm

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