I don't think Cheerskep is thinking enough about the   very blurry line 
between physically seeing something and the idea it occasions, and the 
similarly 
blurry line between the ideas and their physical manifestation-"art" physical 
painting "medicine" emergency room.   You are holding tightly that an idea   is 
in the mind and not in the physical reality without taking any account that 
there might be some overlap. Saul is right, this is an epistemolgical   problem 
of yours. Your continued insistence   on stating the problem as one of 
agreeing on the meaning of   symbols   has resulted in a logical loop.
KAte Sullivan


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