How we know uniqueness without Aesthetic judgment?
Boris Shoshensky

---------- Original Message ----------
From: armando baeza <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: armando baeza <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Reading Kivy: Chapter Two - Wittgenstein and Weitz
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 22:10:50 -0700

Aesthetic judgement aside, art is always one of a kind (unique).
mando

On Oct 8, 2009, at 7:23 AM, William Conger wrote:

> Miller is much better here.  He is more interesting and smarter
> because he raises questions from the content instead of attaching
> his (usually pejorative) judgments up front.
>
>  I've always liked Weitz because he seemed to explain Wittgenstein
> (in terms of art) better than others.  But I need to agree that
> just because "a family resemblance" cannot be pinned down to an
> explicit common feature or concept does not mean that the concept
> has already been fully examined or defined.  We can't sidestep the
> issue by saying there are open and closed concepts.  We can't be
> sure that a concept is closed but we are always right when we say a
> concept is open.  I agree that nothing (in art) has been fully
> explicated.  I turn again to a master of such thinking among
> artists, E. Delacroix:  "That which has been done has not yet been
> done enough".
>
> So why not just admit that the art concept is always open?  Why not
> admit that the "family resemblance" is always an evolving one --
> like nature,  remoter genes are reduced to near zero, if not zero,
> and newer ones seem all new -- or as with metamorphosis, a real
> change occurs.  One can imagine a cluster of "closed concepts"
> within an ever expanding "open concept".
>
> Follow nature.  Here's another quote from Renoir: "Take your
> theories (of art) to Nature and she knocks them all flat".
> wc
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Chris Miller <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2009 8:55:40 AM
> Subject: Reading Kivy: Chapter Two - Wittgenstein and Weitz
>
> "A concept is open if its conditions of application are emendable and
> corrigable; i.e. if a situation or case can be imagined or secured
> which would
> call for some sort of decision on our part to extend the use of the
> concept to
> cover this, or to close the concept  and invent a new one to deal
> with the new
> case and its new property. If necessary and sufficient conditions
> for the
> application  of a concept can be stated, the concept is a closed one"
>
> (Morris Weitz - following Wittgenstein's "Philosophical
> Investigations")
>
> ""Art" is an open concept . New conditions (cases) have constantly
> arisen and
> will undoubtedly  arise; new art forms, new movements will emerge,
> which will
> demand decisions on the part of those interested, usually
> professional critics, as to whether the concept should be extended
> or not"
> (Morris Weitz)
>
> "The primary task of aesthetics is not to seek  a theory but to
> elucidate the
> concept of art.  Specifically, it is to describe the conditions
> under which we
> employ the concept correctly. Definitions, reconstruction, patterns of
> analysis
> are out of place here since they distort and add nothing to our
> understanding
> of art"  (Morris Weitz)
>
>                                                            ...........
> .......
> ........
>
> Kivy first notes that Weitz has not clarified whether his claim is
> epistemic
> (what we know) or ontological (what really is)  I.e, "it might well
> be that we
> tell whether something is a work of art by noting family
> resemblances (the
> epistemic claim) even though, in fact, what makes it a work of art
> is some
> (unknown) property common to all artworks (the ontological claim)"
>
> Kivy suggest that Weitz has acknowledged this oversight, but In
> either case,
> the Wittgensteinian student of aesthetics will be "looking for the
> elusive
> common property" - "noting family resemblances to paradigm cases" to
> continually modify the cluster concept being assembled.
>
> And then Kivy, with no further explanation, suggests "my advice to the
> Wittgensteinian, then, would be the same as to the traditional
> theorists: give
> resemblance a rest. My theme is differences"
>
> Perhaps realizing that this advice is a bit irrelevant, Kivy then
> launches
> into a sharper attack -- noting that "The Wittgensteinian move in the
> philosophy of art was never a popular one, and at the present it is
> not a
> going concern"
>
> Unfortunately, as with his dismissal of Schopenhauer, Kivy seems to
> once again
> accept that the  popular reception of a philosophy  as the final
> word on its
> value.
>
> But to apply the coup de grace, he finally adds "There is a
> simpler, less
> philosophically expansive reason why I reject the Wittgensteinian
> model for
> art.  It is simply that the only argument for its being a proper
> model is a
> bad argument"
>
> And that "bad argument" is that any traditional definition
> "forecloses on the
> very conditions of creativity in the arts"
>
> Why is this a bad argument?
>
> Because "even if  (say) representation were a necessary condition
> for an art,
> it could hardly foreclose on "originality" or "creativity", since
> both (and I
> assume that they are not synonymous) can be exhibited  with the
> constraints
> of
> representation and, as far as I can tell, can continue to be
> exhibited ad
> infinitum: there are infinite changes to be rung on the theme of
> "representation""
>
> (BTW -  those who claim that representation has already
> accomplished all that
> it ever could would not agree with this assertion -- but I do - and
> I would
> take it even further, and say that originality and creativity can
> be exhibited
> ad infinitum within every specific style: Impressionism, Chinese
> landscape,
> Russian icons, etc)
>
> Kivy then notes that Weitz , possibly realizing that he goofed, has
> somewhat
> retreated from his "bad argument"  by dropping the word
> "creativity" from his
> subsequent statement in 1977:
>
> "My argument against theories of art was (and is) that any attempt
> to state
> definite criteria for a concept whose use has depended on and
> continues to
> depend, not on its having such a set, but rather on its being able,
> for its
> correct use, to accomomodate new criteria that are derived, or
> derivable, from
> new art forms  whose features  demand amendation, rejection, or
> expansion of

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