Imago, I can't deny you show assiduity in your reading of philosophers, and
I admire that. But the bleak truth is that though you read philosophers -
Augustine, Wittgenstein, Hume, Ockham, (et al, including Cheerskep!) -- you
evidently don't understand them.

For example, you say my "model of language" is Augustinian: "Your example
of your son operates according to an Augustinian
model of language and language acquisition (the very same one that begins
Wittgensteins Philosophical Investigations)."

Perhaps you were misled by the opening line of the Augustine quote cited by
Wittgenstein: "When my elders named some object. . .I grasped that the
thing was called by the sound they uttered when they meant to point it out."
This sounds close to a paraphrase of my claim that repeated juxtaposition of a
sound and the sight of an object forges in the mind a link, an association
between the two.

But Augustine goes on to say, ""Thus, as I heard words repeatedly used in
their proper places in various sentences, I gradually learned to understand
what objects they signifiedb&"

Wittgenstein then does a pretty fair job of "interpreting" Augustine:
"These words, it seems to me, give us [Augustine's] particular picture of the
essence of human language. It is this: individual words in language name
objects. . .Every word has a meaning. The meaning is correlated with the word.
It
is the object for which the word stands."

But, Imago, I have almost incessantly maintained that words DON'T signify,
DON'T "mean", don't denote, refer to, or name. From which I infer you
certainly misunderstood me, or Augustine, or both of us.

You go on: " As Wittgenstein shows, however, that model of language neither
captures what we do when we use language, nor the meanings involved, nor
even the process of language
acquisition."

It's not clear which alleged model you're indicting since Augustine's
notion and mine are distinctly different. Since you seem to think our notions
are
the same, I'll assume you think Wittgenstein was effectively dismissing
both of us. But he wasn't.

Wittgenstein's gripe here in section #1 of PHILOSOPHICAL INVESTIGATIONS is
that Augustine's description of "language" is to primitive, too narrow -
largely because it seems to apply only to objects like a chair or table, but
not, let's say, to more general terms or to actions. Wittgenstein says, "The
teaching of language to a child is not explanation, but training." He is
talking here about solely the teaching of Augustine's simple nouns for
objects.
He does not want to say that by pointing at an object and saying, "Horsey!"
you are "defining" 'horsey' by "ostensive definition" . Instead, he says, "I
will call it 'ostensive teaching of words'."

(The reason Wittgenstein gives for not wanting to call it "ostensive
definition" is, "because the child cannot yet ASK what the name is." That's a
bad
expression of what was on Wittgenstein's mind. Is a child unable to ask
because it can't talk yet, or because he hasn't yet taken on board the
misconception that objects "have names"? Writing, as he was, over sixty years
ago, I
suspect that Wittgenstein himself never questioned the notion that objects
"have names". Indeed, I'd claim that even today living philosophers -- e.g.
Saul Kripke - are deeply mistaken in their thinking about "names".)

Wittgenstein then goes on to say something that Imago should read: "This
ostensive teaching of words can be said to establish an association between
the word and the thing." Familiar?

However, he goes on: "But what does this mean?" I claim this is an unwise
locution for Wittgenstein to use at this point, because it assumes on page 3
what should have been a central question of the 232 page PHILOSOPHICAL
INVESTIGATIONS: Does language carry out an action called "meaning"?

Wittgenstein continues: "Well, it can mean various things; but one very
likely thinks first of all that a picture of the object comes before the
child's mind when it [sic] hears the word."

>From all of which, and more, I infer Imago doesn't follow Wittgenstein any
more than he follows me or Augustine.

Finally (in this posting) Imago on Ockham:

"Remember also that Okham was a monimalist, which emant that once you
conceive an abstraction, it exists.   So I very much doubt that he would agree
with you about the nonexistence of abstractions.   After all, Okham's razor =
do not multiply entities beyond necessity.   Some abstractions are, I am
afraid, necessary."

Many of Wikipedia's entries on philosophers are wanting, but the entry on
Ockham has some virtues (albeit also some fuzziness). Here's the opening of
the passage on Ockham and nominalism:

"A pioneer of nominalism, some consider him the father of modern
epistemology, because of his strongly argued position that only individuals
exist,
rather than supra-individual universals, essences, or forms, and that
universals are the products of abstraction from individuals by the human mind
and
have no extra-mental existence.[9] He denied the real existence of
metaphysical
universals and advocated the reduction of ontology. Ockham is sometimes
considered an advocate of conceptualism rather than nominalism, for whereas
nominalists held that universals were merely names, i.e. words rather than
existing realities, conceptualists held that they were mental concepts, i.e. .
.
. the universal concept has for its object, not a reality existing in the
world outside us, but an internal representation which is a product of the
understanding itself and which "supposes" in the mind . . .
Ontological parsimony:
One important contribution that he made to modern science and modern
intellectual culture was through the principle of parsimony in explanation and
theory building that came to be known as Occam's Razor. This maxim, as
interpreted by Bertrand Russell,[11] states that if one can explain a
phenomenon
without assuming this or that hypothetical entity, there is no ground for
assuming it, i.e. that one should always opt for an explanation in terms of
the
fewest possible number of causes, factors, or variables. He turned this into
a concern for ontological parsimony; the principle says that one should not
multiply entities beyond necessity. . ."

Again I have to conclude that Imago has got a philosopher diametrically
wrong.

When Imago writes, "Some abstractions are, I am afraid, necessary," I infer
he believes they are what Ockham denied: "a reality existing in the world
outside us." But exactly why Ockham denied the non-mental ontic status of
"abstractions" is that everything attributed to abstractions can be "accounted
for" by dualists (people who believe there are only two kinds of "things" -
material and consciousness) - and even by physicalists - people who believe
there's only one kind of thing - material. So "abstractions", being an
"unnecessary" hypothetical entity, should be put to the razor.

Imago, I hope you can understand why, when you in effect say, "Cheerskep's
position on such-and-such has already been destroyed by the philosopher
So-and-So," you have not persuaded me.

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