In my experience DirecTV On Demand is a fixed 5 Mbps, if it doesn’t find that available, it tells you that your Internet is too slow to watch now, and you have to download to your DVR and watch later (which nobody wants to do).
Hulu says you need 8 Mbps for Hulu Live. Most live TV is probably going to be single stream rate and not as efficiently compressed as your regular Netflix/Hulu/Youtube stuff because the video is being compressed on-the-fly. I know we get a lot of people who can watch multiple Netflix streams saying they can’t watch live sports without it stopping and starting. As people cancel their satellite TV and start streaming live TV, we’ve been getting complaints that suddenly their Internet is too slow and video is starting and stopping. Various services like Sling, networks like CBS, and I think also some OTT streaming service from AT&T. We also get the occasional customer watching some Christian TV station on the Internet and having problems. So I don’t think all video streams are the same. I’d like to tell people if Netflix works and ESPN doesn’t, then it’s an ESPN problem, but you know how some people are about their sports. From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Darin Steffl Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 2:01 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bandwidth management appliance opinions For fail over, there is no reason why you should worry. You can easily use OSPF or other redundancy methods to route around the preseem in the event of a failure. I don't mean to offend but you may want to brush up on that if you don't know about it already. In response to the magic about preseem, it's not magic at all. It uses fq_codel to shape traffic like they reference on their website and it does Not target certain streams or know that something needs more bandwidth. Almost all video had variable bitrate now so if you have 10 meg plan and you're running 3 video streams, it should split them about equal to 3.33 mbps for each stream. If Netflix drops down to 2.5 mbps then there's a little extra left over for the other streams. What doesn't change is that the small flows that don't use much throughout will always go to the front of the queue to make sure they get priority over the big flows. Preseem classifies it as "mice flows" and "elephant flows" I don't know of any video services that don't have variable bitrate. All the ones I use have that: Netflix, YouTube, Hulu, etc. On Tue, Nov 13, 2018, 2:52 PM Richard Strittmatter <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: We just have failover OSPF connections between the routers. Core <-> preseem <-> access network + Core <-> access network ( at a higher OSPF cost ) Simple. If the preseem fails, it routes around it. We are currently building our second preseem box to split the load ( because they only have 10GB interfaces ) Richard Strittmatter From: AF [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ] On Behalf Of Josh Baird Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 1:46 PM To: AFMUG <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bandwidth management appliance opinions A concern that I have with Preseam (or any other vendor like this) is that it requires me to put a single box (usually a Dell server) right in-line with all of my customer traffic. All of a sudden, my entire customer network is reliant on a single Dell server. I know that Procera and maybe some other vendors offered bypass modules for this type of thing, but what are Preseam customers doing? Is this not a concern for you? On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 2:40 PM Ken Hohhof <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: That’s what bothers me about Preseem, it sounds like it works by magic. Every time in the past I’ve bought into magical solutions, I’ve been burned. I don’t know how you decide between a Windows 10 Update, an Xbox game download, a Netflix stream that with variable video quality, and a live sports video stream that has a single stream rate and will buffer or skip if it doesn’t get 10 Mbps … unless you identify the application via either DPI or something equivalent. Apparently Preseem allocates the bandwidth based on how the flow acts? I still don’t see how it can know that the software download can be deferred or slowed until off-peak, the Netflix stream can be squeezed to 2.5 Mbps, but the live sports stream needs a certain bitrate or it just won’t work. Of course there’s also a bigger problem. If you talk to the kid trying to download the latest 50 gigabyte game and play it, that should get 100% of the bandwidth. But we’re never going to solve that one, unless we give customers a portal where they can tweak the knobs themselves. From: AF <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of Darin Steffl Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 1:21 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bandwidth management appliance opinions I'll say we've used procera, saisei, in the past and they're DPI. They're cool and you can do lots of things with them. They also require hands-on attention and tweaking. They give you NO usable QoE data so you still can't tell where you have trouble in your network or individual customers like you can with preseem. We now use preseem for about 11 months and we love it! It's not DPI so don't even think that you can shape individual types of traffic like video, updates, etc because thats not what it is. It requires no tweaking or hands-on configuration at all and preseem guys do all the work for you. It provides the best QoE data of any service out there and really helps tell you what tower, sector, or customer is having a bad experience so you can fix it. On top of this valuable data, it does your rate plan shaping and it does it damn well to boot. Customers can now max out their rate plans without a spike in latency or complaints or laggy gaming or slow web browsing. It allows small traffic flows like voip, dns, web browsing, gaming to "jump the queue" so to speak so large flows like video and updates don't slow everything down. It's very handy. I've rate shaped my home down to 3 mbps and still was able to run 2 Netflix streams, 1 YouTube, plus a voip call and web browse without any lag or buffering whatsoever. I highly recommend anyone do a trial with preseem and you'll be happy campers. On Tue, Nov 13, 2018, 1:34 PM Mike Hammett <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: Bufferbloat is over-hyped. Also, https://people.ucsc.edu/~warner/buffer.html ----- Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _____ From: "Ken Hohhof" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 11:59:53 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bandwidth management appliance opinions Where is this alleged bufferbloat coming from? It can’t be from rate queues. The highest we set our Mikrotik queues is around 40 packets before they start dropping packets. We have pushed the queue depth higher to signal congestion to TCP Vegas style implementations. But at 10 Mbps that’s still only ~40 milliseconds of delay. I don’t think that qualifies as bufferbloat. Where in a typical WISP network are these huge buffers? Are you talking about APs at 100% of capacity? I admit I don’t know how much data an AP will buffer waiting for a timeslot to send the data over the air. But the only time I see latencies soar toward 1 second under load is on my one hated WiMAX basestation, and I think that may be due to excessive HARQ retries or something. From: AF <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of Dev Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 11:41 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bandwidth management appliance opinions I looked at a couple variations of buffer bloat management, and have decided to build my own and maybe just open source the thing for “people who feel 50K seems excessive” and just need some basic functionality on a vanilla Linux box. The open source tech is out there, it’s just tying it all together in some sane way. I hope others will open source what they’re working on too, that’s what the community is about. I feel like the community is moving away from including the little guys these days. <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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