I'm pretty sure Frontier complaining about support is absolutely the most laughable thing in this situation.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 4:19 PM <[email protected]> wrote: > Their radio tech said that the path with the passive repeater would have > issues when there is fog. But I don’t think I have ever seen fog in that > area. > > *From:* Ken Hohhof > *Sent:* Saturday, May 18, 2019 1:57 PM > *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium > > > Did they say which Aviat model they ordered? Aviat says they have a high > power ODU that can do +39dBm. But if Frontier wanted best range with no > regard to cost or power consumption, they should have ordered the +35 dBm > PTP820C-HP from Cambium, not the PTP820S. If you’re going to do a > shootout, make it apples-to-apples. > > > > In general Aviat has newer radios with features and specs that exceed > Cambium’s current offering, like 4096QAM and SFP+, probably more, I haven’t > done a detailed comparison. They look like nice radios. It’s just not > clear what the Cambium radios were supposed to do but didn’t. Is this just > buyers remorse / they ordered the wrong thing, or is Cambium actually > failing to meet one of their specs? Or maybe Cambium (or a distributor) > ran the path through Link Planner for them and made a product > recommendation and Frontier ran with it. > > > > From the location, I assume this is not a rain fade situation? If it was > by me, I’d say yeah, everybody knows that climate change has made the rain > models obsolete, better knock off a least one “9”, given that we’re having > 100 year rains every couple weeks now. > > > > I will say the IP20/PTP820 doesn’t have the friendliest menus in the > world. If Frontier was having trouble getting support, it’s entirely > possible they have something configured wrong. I was reminded of this the > other day when I had to log into a SAF 24 GHz radio I had not touched in 8 > years, and wow, they have a nice GUI. > > > > > > *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *[email protected] > *Sent:* Saturday, May 18, 2019 1:58 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium > > > > If Frontier gave them a fair shot at it, this ought to be a valuable shoot > out. > > > > *From:* Tim Hardy > > *Sent:* Saturday, May 18, 2019 12:44 PM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium > > > > The radios were the 820s which is the Ceragon IP20. > > Sent from my iPad > > > On May 18, 2019, at 2:17 PM, <[email protected]> <[email protected]> wrote: > > No idea, but I sure never had support issues with Cambium other than > perhaps a bit of an initial delay. > > > > *From:* Bill Prince > > *Sent:* Saturday, May 18, 2019 11:44 AM > > *To:* [email protected] > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium > > > > I have not read an y of the backup material, but are the "Cambium" radios > actually the re-badged Ceregon radios? > > > > bp > > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> > > > > On 5/18/2019 8:16 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: > > I would like to see a comparison between the Cambium and Aviat radios. > The major complaint during the hearing was that Cambium was not providing > support. But when they said the Aviat was magic and did what Cambium could > not I really had some heartburn. And that was on the direct line, not the > passive link. > > > > They wrote a pretty big check with their mouth during the hearing and they > expect Aviat to cash it. By this time next week the magic Aviat will be > installed on that passive path and provide magic once again... > > > > Not sure how I am going to be able to get any feedback on this. I suppose > the lawyer that represents the customer can check with Frontier and see how > it is going. He is a friend of mine and will most likely tell me what > Frontier is saying. Of course they will say it is going well. I used to > know the techs at Moab, but I am sure they are going to say it is fixed > even if it fails miserably. > > > > The end user’s lack of dial tone will be telling. > > > > *From:* Ken Hohhof > > *Sent:* Saturday, May 18, 2019 7:05 AM > > *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium > > > > Seems like the radio is being used as a scapegoat. If it’s an RF path > issue, there’s only so much magic the electronics can do. Like a golfer > blaming his clubs for his bad score. I don’t suppose they explained what > features or specs of the Aviat radios are going to fix the problem, or do > they even know what the problem is? > > > > If they just need a few dB more fade margin, then yes, higher xmt power or > better rcv sensitivity or something like that could help. A little. Stuff > like 2048QAM or 4096QAM are going to increase the throughput under ideal > conditions and do nothing for performance under adverse conditions. And > the thing about fading is we’re talking huge dB numbers, which is hard to > overcome with antenna gain or system margin where just a couple dB is > difficult and expensive. > > > > Maybe this is what the future looks like with all this government funding > and accountability for meeting specs. If you screw up, start looking > around for a vendor to blame, and insist they take the equipment back > because it was bought with CAF money. > > > > Good points about the narrow beams and the use of a passive repeater. It > wouldn’t take much atmospheric effects or tower twist to affect the RF path. > > > > It’s also hard to believe they never had fading issues on the legacy > equipment. I remember working for a telecom equipment manufacturer in the > 80’s and common wisdom was you couldn’t submit any new equipment for telco > evaluation during summer or “the fading season” because it was all hands on > deck at the telcos to keep their long haul microwave links from dropping. > I don’t know what manual tweaking was involved, but apparently it was a big > issue. Just try binoculars on a long microwave path on a hot day and see > what the atmosphere does to the image of that distant tower. Now imagine > that’s a billboard and you have to make a bank shot off it. > > > > > > *From:* AF mailto:[email protected] *On Behalf Of *[email protected] > *Sent:* Friday, May 17, 2019 1:46 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium > > > > A motion was just made to revoke Frontier’s certificate if they cannot > achieve 99.99% uptime/availability with the new Aviat radio. > > > > Wow, 15’ dishes warp in the wind, towers twist. > > > > The beamwidth .35 degrees. > > That is like a laser beam on this thing. > > > > If anyone with Aviat is listening, they need to give this deployment some > extra focus or tell Frontier that they may have a problem using 15’ > antennas and a passive repeater. > > There are lots of people watching. > > > > They should also true up the license. > > > > *From:* [email protected] > > *Sent:* Friday, May 17, 2019 12:31 PM > > *To:* [email protected] > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium > > > > They should run a fiber up to the passive repeater location. Only 1 km. > > > > Or put an active repeater there. But again, this is Fronter. > > > > *From:* dave > > *Sent:* Friday, May 17, 2019 12:27 PM > > *To:* [email protected] > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium > > > > yeah thats huge! > Why not do a spatial diversity to compensate for such a large dish for > distance? > I did a 71 mile shot with cambium sub 6Ghz using 4x 4' andrew dishes at > each end with very stable shots. > Of course real estate would be a factor. Diversity requires some spacing > between dishes. > I also converted an old microwave 12' dish for a tv station to spatial > diversity and been in operation for 8yrs. > > > > <image001.jpg> > > On 5/17/19 1:20 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > 4.6 Meter antennas. 15’ Wow. 48.3 dBi > > > > *From:* [email protected] > > *Sent:* Friday, May 17, 2019 12:18 PM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium > > > > Thanks > > Looks like Frontier did not update their license ... > > > > 11 Ghz Still shows Alcate MDR-8611-135 radio. > > > > 16 km on one side 1 km on the other side of the billboard. > > That seems to be the requirement for billboards, very short leg on one > side. > > > > *From:* Cassidy B. Larson > > *Sent:* Friday, May 17, 2019 12:14 PM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium > > > > Maybe this one? > > > > > https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/licensePathsSum.jsp?pageNumToReturn=1&licKey=963392 > > > > Contact is Frontier.. > > > > > > > > -- > ---- > Cassidy B. Larson > CTO - InfoWest, Inc. > Voice: 435-773-6073 > [email protected] > ---- > > > > > > > On May 17, 2019, at 12:03 PM, <[email protected]> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Cambium is getting torn up at a Utah Public Service Commission hearing > this morning. > > > > Frontier installed a pair of Cambium something between Bald Mesa and > Castle Valley Utah in December to change out a TDM radio. > > > > Bad fading on Cambium. > > > > A resort ranch filed a complaint and I am listening to he hearing this > morning. Frontier is complaining that they got no support from Cambium. > The radios would work for 3 or 4 days and then troubles would come again > over and over. Frontier changed out the Cambium radio in March. > > > > They removed Cambium and said they have removed them as a vendor company > wide. > > They changed to Aviat. Supposedly the new radios fixed everything. > Typing this as I am listening to the hearing. > > > > The ranch still had some problems after changing to Aviat. Frontier says > that the the new radios fixed everything. The new radio has not had any > drop outs. > > > > This is a two hop system. They are changing out cambium on the second leg > with Aviat soon. Passive repeater system on the second leg. Fog causes > fading. Drops modulation down to low QAM levels. Frontier claims the > second Aviat radio will make this network flawless. When asked what that > means Frontier answered 99.99% > > > > Frontier is in process to take action against Cambium. CAF money was used > to buy the Cambium radios. > > Second leg is scheduled for commissioning next week. > > > > Someone should take a look at this license and tell me the details on that > passive repeater side. I am curious as to the leg distances. Too lazy to > look it up. Frontier Telephone Company or whatever they are called now. > Moab to Bald Mesa. Bald Mesa to Castle Valley. Passive on the second > leg. I am betting these are 6 GHz links with huge antennas. > > > > > > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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