I'm pretty sure Frontier complaining about support is absolutely the
most laughable thing in this situation.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 4:19 PM <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Their radio tech said that the path with the passive repeater would
have issues when there is fog. But I don’t think I have ever seen
fog in that area.
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Saturday, May 18, 2019 1:57 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium
Did they say which Aviat model they ordered? Aviat says they have a
high power ODU that can do +39dBm. But if Frontier wanted best
range with no regard to cost or power consumption, they should have
ordered the +35 dBm PTP820C-HP from Cambium, not the PTP820S. If
you’re going to do a shootout, make it apples-to-apples.____
____
In general Aviat has newer radios with features and specs that
exceed Cambium’s current offering, like 4096QAM and SFP+, probably
more, I haven’t done a detailed comparison. They look like nice
radios. It’s just not clear what the Cambium radios were supposed
to do but didn’t. Is this just buyers remorse / they ordered the
wrong thing, or is Cambium actually failing to meet one of their
specs? Or maybe Cambium (or a distributor) ran the path through
Link Planner for them and made a product recommendation and Frontier
ran with it.____
____
From the location, I assume this is not a rain fade situation? If
it was by me, I’d say yeah, everybody knows that climate change has
made the rain models obsolete, better knock off a least one “9”,
given that we’re having 100 year rains every couple weeks now.____
____
I will say the IP20/PTP820 doesn’t have the friendliest menus in the
world. If Frontier was having trouble getting support, it’s
entirely possible they have something configured wrong. I was
reminded of this the other day when I had to log into a SAF 24 GHz
radio I had not touched in 8 years, and wow, they have a nice GUI.____
____
____
*From:*AF <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
*On Behalf Of *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Saturday, May 18, 2019 1:58 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium____
____
If Frontier gave them a fair shot at it, this ought to be a valuable
shoot out. ____
____
*From:*Tim Hardy ____
*Sent:*Saturday, May 18, 2019 12:44 PM____
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ____
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium____
____
The radios were the 820s which is the Ceragon IP20.____
Sent from my iPad____
On May 18, 2019, at 2:17 PM, <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
wrote:____
No idea, but I sure never had support issues with Cambium other
than perhaps a bit of an initial delay. ____
____
*From:*Bill Prince ____
*Sent:*Saturday, May 18, 2019 11:44 AM____
*To:*[email protected] ____
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium____
____
I have not read an y of the backup material, but are the
"Cambium" radios actually the re-badged Ceregon radios?____
____
bp____
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>____
____
On 5/18/2019 8:16 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:____
I would like to see a comparison between the Cambium and
Aviat radios. The major complaint during the hearing was
that Cambium was not providing support. But when they said
the Aviat was magic and did what Cambium could not I really
had some heartburn. And that was on the direct line, not
the passive link. ____
____
They wrote a pretty big check with their mouth during the
hearing and they expect Aviat to cash it. By this time next
week the magic Aviat will be installed on that passive path
and provide magic once again...____
____
Not sure how I am going to be able to get any feedback on
this. I suppose the lawyer that represents the customer can
check with Frontier and see how it is going. He is a friend
of mine and will most likely tell me what Frontier is
saying. Of course they will say it is going well. I used
to know the techs at Moab, but I am sure they are going to
say it is fixed even if it fails miserably. ____
____
The end user’s lack of dial tone will be telling. ____
____
*From:*Ken Hohhof ____
*Sent:*Saturday, May 18, 2019 7:05 AM____
*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' ____
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium____
____
Seems like the radio is being used as a scapegoat. If it’s
an RF path issue, there’s only so much magic the electronics
can do. Like a golfer blaming his clubs for his bad score.
I don’t suppose they explained what features or specs of the
Aviat radios are going to fix the problem, or do they even
know what the problem is?____
____
If they just need a few dB more fade margin, then yes,
higher xmt power or better rcv sensitivity or something like
that could help. A little. Stuff like 2048QAM or 4096QAM
are going to increase the throughput under ideal conditions
and do nothing for performance under adverse conditions.
And the thing about fading is we’re talking huge dB numbers,
which is hard to overcome with antenna gain or system margin
where just a couple dB is difficult and expensive.____
____
Maybe this is what the future looks like with all this
government funding and accountability for meeting specs. If
you screw up, start looking around for a vendor to blame,
and insist they take the equipment back because it was
bought with CAF money.____
____
Good points about the narrow beams and the use of a passive
repeater. It wouldn’t take much atmospheric effects or
tower twist to affect the RF path.____
____
It’s also hard to believe they never had fading issues on
the legacy equipment. I remember working for a telecom
equipment manufacturer in the 80’s and common wisdom was you
couldn’t submit any new equipment for telco evaluation
during summer or “the fading season” because it was all
hands on deck at the telcos to keep their long haul
microwave links from dropping. I don’t know what manual
tweaking was involved, but apparently it was a big issue.
Just try binoculars on a long microwave path on a hot day
and see what the atmosphere does to the image of that
distant tower. Now imagine that’s a billboard and you have
to make a bank shot off it.____
____
____
*From:*AF mailto:[email protected] *On Behalf Of
*[email protected]
*Sent:* Friday, May 17, 2019 1:46 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium____
____
A motion was just made to revoke Frontier’s certificate if
they cannot achieve 99.99% uptime/availability with the new
Aviat radio.____
____
Wow, 15’ dishes warp in the wind, towers twist. ____
____
The beamwidth .35 degrees. ____
That is like a laser beam on this thing. ____
____
If anyone with Aviat is listening, they need to give this
deployment some extra focus or tell Frontier that they may
have a problem using 15’ antennas and a passive repeater.____
There are lots of people watching.____
____
They should also true up the license. ____
____
*From:*[email protected] ____
*Sent:*Friday, May 17, 2019 12:31 PM____
*To:*[email protected] ____
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium____
____
They should run a fiber up to the passive repeater
location. Only 1 km. ____
____
Or put an active repeater there. But again, this is
Fronter. ____
____
*From:*dave ____
*Sent:*Friday, May 17, 2019 12:27 PM____
*To:*[email protected] ____
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium____
____
yeah thats huge!
Why not do a spatial diversity to compensate for such a
large dish for distance?
I did a 71 mile shot with cambium sub 6Ghz using 4x 4'
andrew dishes at each end with very stable shots.
Of course real estate would be a factor. Diversity requires
some spacing between dishes.
I also converted an old microwave 12' dish for a tv station
to spatial diversity and been in operation for 8yrs.
____
<image001.jpg>____
On 5/17/19 1:20 PM, [email protected] wrote:____
4.6 Meter antennas. 15’ Wow. 48.3 dBi____
____
*From:*[email protected] ____
*Sent:*Friday, May 17, 2019 12:18 PM____
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ____
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium____
____
Thanks____
Looks like Frontier did not update their license ...____
____
11 Ghz Still shows Alcate MDR-8611-135 radio.____
____
16 km on one side 1 km on the other side of the
billboard. ____
That seems to be the requirement for billboards, very
short leg on one side. ____
____
*From:*Cassidy B. Larson ____
*Sent:*Friday, May 17, 2019 12:14 PM____
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ____
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium____
____
Maybe this one? ____
____
https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/licensePathsSum.jsp?pageNumToReturn=1&licKey=963392____
____
Contact is Frontier..____
____
____
--
----
Cassidy B. Larson
CTO - InfoWest, Inc.
Voice: 435-773-6073
[email protected]
----
____
____
On May 17, 2019, at 12:03 PM, <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> wrote:____
____
Cambium is getting torn up at a Utah Public Service
Commission hearing this morning. ____
____
Frontier installed a pair of Cambium something
between Bald Mesa and Castle Valley Utah in December
to change out a TDM radio. ____
____
Bad fading on Cambium. ____
____
A resort ranch filed a complaint and I am listening
to he hearing this morning. Frontier is complaining
that they got no support from Cambium. The radios
would work for 3 or 4 days and then troubles would
come again over and over. Frontier changed out the
Cambium radio in March. ____
____
They removed Cambium and said they have removed them
as a vendor company wide. ____
They changed to Aviat. Supposedly the new radios
fixed everything. Typing this as I am listening to
the hearing.____
____
The ranch still had some problems after changing to
Aviat. Frontier says that the the new radios fixed
everything. The new radio has not had any drop
outs. ____
____
This is a two hop system. They are changing out
cambium on the second leg with Aviat soon. Passive
repeater system on the second leg. Fog causes
fading. Drops modulation down to low QAM levels.
Frontier claims the second Aviat radio will make
this network flawless. When asked what that means
Frontier answered 99.99%____
____
Frontier is in process to take action against
Cambium. CAF money was used to buy the Cambium
radios.____
Second leg is scheduled for commissioning next week.
____
____
Someone should take a look at this license and tell
me the details on that passive repeater side. I am
curious as to the leg distances. Too lazy to look
it up. Frontier Telephone Company or whatever they
are called now. Moab to Bald Mesa. Bald Mesa to
Castle Valley. Passive on the second leg. I am
betting these are 6 GHz links with huge antennas. ____
____
____
____
____
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