Well, right, that's true, and another thing that you need to consider is that something like an Aviat will run at higher TX power, and probably has better receive sensitivity, meaning you might be able to use smaller dishes for similar performance in some circumstances.
Using 2 foots is doable on 7 miles around here (the ubnt dishes are actually something like 32", but the gain is more in line with a decent 2')... but it all depends on what your requirements are. It will lose some capacity in heavy storms, but I wouldn't expect that to be a major problem in Utah. Even putting a 3' dish on some structures we're installing on is questionable (whether for wind load reasons, appearance or even just lack of space), so 4' or 6' has pretty much been out of the question on the links I've done. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get. On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > I didn't mean to imply it would be the same price, but it's a different > value that needs to be considered. > > If you need larger or higher quality dishes, they very well could > represent more cost than the electronics in either scenario. Ever price out > 4' or 6' high performance dishes? > > > It's not just cat A vs. cat b, but within cat A there are still huge > differences in what you may need to use in your environment. > > That said, in our area, I can't imagine using less than a 3' dish for a 7 > mile link in 11 GHz. I'd be happier with a 4'. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com> > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> > *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:18:56 AM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] af11x > > Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at > some point... > > I think an Aviat single transceiver link came out to about $6k for the > hardware, with 2' dishes when I priced it, so that's nearly double the > price of the AF11. If we say $1k of that is in the dishes (I don't remember > exactly how the pricing broke down, but I think the dishes were actually > quite a bit less than that), that's still an almost $2k difference (with > throwing the ubiquiti dishes away)... presumably the better dishes will be > about the same price for either radio, so the only other difference is > going to be a few hundred for adapters to connect the AF11 to a real dish. > > It didn't used to be too big of a difference in price to use Jirous dishes > with the AF11, because even though you had to buy an adapter (which I think > was like $140), the dishes were cheaper, but I don't think that's the case > anymore (and it obvious isn't if you can only get the kit). > > And of course, if you only need ~350Mbps, you could just do single pol > with the AF11, and there'd be no need to go with better radios... and it > would take ~$350 off the price, since you don't need the extra duplexers. > > But the only reason I'd see you needing better dishes on a 7 mile link is > if congestion makes a cat A dish necessary. > > Shipping cost also starts to add up when you're dealing with bigger > dishes... Chuck could probably pick up the AF11 kits locally from > Streakwave, but that may not be the case for other stuff. > > On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:44 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > >> How much more is it, though, for better radios if you need the better >> dishes, yet have to buy the Ubiquiti dishes anyway? >> >> AF11 kit with dishes (that you'll just throw away) >> N to waveguide adapters >> Good dish >> >> vs. >> >> Better radio >> Good dish >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> ------------------------------ >> *From: *"Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com> >> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> >> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:21:00 AM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] af11x >> >> I used Comsearch for the last few we did... the price wasn't much >> different at the time, but I have no idea if that's still the case. >> >> Ken is right about the performance... you basically get he >> same throughput out of dual pol that higher end radios get on single pol. >> It only really matters if the area is congested, but if it is, you may need >> to spend more and get better radios. >> >> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 8:51 AM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >>> So is Liz still the best value for freq coordination and license prep? >>> >>> *From:* Ken Hohhof >>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:34 AM >>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x >>> >>> >>> I don’t have any AF11X and may be remembering wrong, but I think you >>> basically have to coordinate dual pol, for single pol performance. So if >>> you’re in a congested area, it might be marginally more difficult to >>> coordinate because you won’t have the option of using single pol if only V >>> or H is available. V is usually preferred because of less rain fade, so >>> sometimes H is still available. Bottom line, might want to do frequency >>> coordination before buying hardware. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown >>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:15 AM >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 8, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> The kit is available with high band duplexers. >>> >>> >>> >>> But yeah, last I checked, the AF11 is still only in stock anywhere in >>> kit form, so it makes sense to just go with the Ubiquiti dishes (which >>> should be fine for 7 miles anyway), So you'd be at about $3200 for the >>> hardware (2 kits plus two more duplexers to do mimo). If I remember >>> correctly, coordination and licensing was somewhere around $1600 on the >>> last link we did, so you'll probably end up right around $5K total. >>> >>> >>> >>> I haven't ever had any problem finding an open frequency, but that >>> completely depends on the area. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 6:15 PM Jason Wilson <ja...@remotelylocated.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Additionally if you get a high band allotment you’ll need new duplexes >>> all the way around. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 3:48 PM Jesse DuPont < >>> jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> wrote: >>> >>> Yes. The AF11x "kit" (two radios, two duplexers, two antennas) is $1500, >>> need two more duplexers if doing MIMO - another $500 ish. Then $2K (at the >>> most) for the coordination/licensing fees. If you want better antennas than >>> the UBNT ones in the kit, they'll be over and above. Radiowaves and KP make >>> good ones (they're the same antenna, actually). >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Jesse DuPont* >>> >>> Owner / Network Architect >>> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net >>> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC >>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc >>> >>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband >>> >>> <celeritynetworks-GIF.gif> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5/8/20 4:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>> >>> $4K, both radios, both antennas and a license? >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Jesse DuPont >>> >>> *Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:39 PM >>> >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; ch...@wbmfg.com >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x >>> >>> >>> >>> About $4K, 700 Mbps. Open freqs completely depends on your location. >>> Might have to upgrade antennas. >>> >>> >>> >>> *Jesse DuPont* >>> >>> Owner / Network Architect >>> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net >>> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC >>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc >>> >>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband >>> >>> <celeritynetworks-GIF.gif> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5/8/20 3:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>> >>> What is the cost, all in, license, antennas, everything for a system >>> that will do 7 miles? >>> >>> What throughput will that have? >>> >>> How likely is it to find an open frequency? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> Jason Wilson >>> Remotely Located >>> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places. >>> 530-651-1736 >>> 530-748-9608 Cell >>> www.remotelylocated.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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