I just do the technical stuff. On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 3:59 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
> $999 for a single radio, where a kit is $1500 for two radios and all the > trimmings? > > *From:* Chuck Macenski > *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:44 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x > > In stock: > https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11 > > > On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:10 PM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Well, right, that's true, and another thing that you need to consider is >> that something like an Aviat will run at higher TX power, and probably has >> better receive sensitivity, meaning you might be able to use smaller dishes >> for similar performance in some circumstances. >> >> Using 2 foots is doable on 7 miles around here (the ubnt dishes are >> actually something like 32", but the gain is more in line with a decent >> 2')... but it all depends on what your requirements are. It will lose some >> capacity in heavy storms, but I wouldn't expect that to be a major problem >> in Utah. Even putting a 3' dish on some structures we're installing on is >> questionable (whether for wind load reasons, appearance or even just lack >> of space), so 4' or 6' has pretty much been out of the question on the >> links I've done. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get. >> >> >> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: >> >>> I didn't mean to imply it would be the same price, but it's a different >>> value that needs to be considered. >>> >>> If you need larger or higher quality dishes, they very well could >>> represent more cost than the electronics in either scenario. Ever price out >>> 4' or 6' high performance dishes? >>> >>> >>> It's not just cat A vs. cat b, but within cat A there are still huge >>> differences in what you may need to use in your environment. >>> >>> That said, in our area, I can't imagine using less than a 3' dish for a >>> 7 mile link in 11 GHz. I'd be happier with a 4'. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>> >>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *"Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com> >>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> >>> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:18:56 AM >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] af11x >>> >>> Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at >>> some point... >>> >>> I think an Aviat single transceiver link came out to about $6k for the >>> hardware, with 2' dishes when I priced it, so that's nearly double the >>> price of the AF11. If we say $1k of that is in the dishes (I don't remember >>> exactly how the pricing broke down, but I think the dishes were actually >>> quite a bit less than that), that's still an almost $2k difference (with >>> throwing the ubiquiti dishes away)... presumably the better dishes will be >>> about the same price for either radio, so the only other difference is >>> going to be a few hundred for adapters to connect the AF11 to a real dish. >>> >>> It didn't used to be too big of a difference in price to use Jirous >>> dishes with the AF11, because even though you had to buy an adapter (which >>> I think was like $140), the dishes were cheaper, but I don't think that's >>> the case anymore (and it obvious isn't if you can only get the kit). >>> >>> And of course, if you only need ~350Mbps, you could just do single pol >>> with the AF11, and there'd be no need to go with better radios... and it >>> would take ~$350 off the price, since you don't need the extra duplexers. >>> >>> But the only reason I'd see you needing better dishes on a 7 mile link >>> is if congestion makes a cat A dish necessary. >>> >>> Shipping cost also starts to add up when you're dealing with bigger >>> dishes... Chuck could probably pick up the AF11 kits locally from >>> Streakwave, but that may not be the case for other stuff. >>> >>> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:44 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: >>> >>>> How much more is it, though, for better radios if you need the better >>>> dishes, yet have to buy the Ubiquiti dishes anyway? >>>> >>>> AF11 kit with dishes (that you'll just throw away) >>>> N to waveguide adapters >>>> Good dish >>>> >>>> vs. >>>> >>>> Better radio >>>> Good dish >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Mike Hammett >>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>> >>>> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From: *"Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com> >>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> >>>> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:21:00 AM >>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] af11x >>>> >>>> I used Comsearch for the last few we did... the price wasn't much >>>> different at the time, but I have no idea if that's still the case. >>>> >>>> Ken is right about the performance... you basically get he same >>>> throughput out of dual pol that higher end radios get on single pol. It >>>> only really matters if the area is congested, but if it is, you may need to >>>> spend more and get better radios. >>>> >>>> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 8:51 AM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> So is Liz still the best value for freq coordination and license prep? >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Ken Hohhof >>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:34 AM >>>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I don’t have any AF11X and may be remembering wrong, but I think you >>>>> basically have to coordinate dual pol, for single pol performance. So if >>>>> you’re in a congested area, it might be marginally more difficult to >>>>> coordinate because you won’t have the option of using single pol if only V >>>>> or H is available. V is usually preferred because of less rain fade, so >>>>> sometimes H is still available. Bottom line, might want to do frequency >>>>> coordination before buying hardware. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown >>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:15 AM >>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 8, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The kit is available with high band duplexers. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> But yeah, last I checked, the AF11 is still only in stock anywhere in >>>>> kit form, so it makes sense to just go with the Ubiquiti dishes (which >>>>> should be fine for 7 miles anyway), So you'd be at about $3200 for the >>>>> hardware (2 kits plus two more duplexers to do mimo). If I remember >>>>> correctly, coordination and licensing was somewhere around $1600 on the >>>>> last link we did, so you'll probably end up right around $5K total. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I haven't ever had any problem finding an open frequency, but that >>>>> completely depends on the area. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 6:15 PM Jason Wilson <ja...@remotelylocated.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Additionally if you get a high band allotment you’ll need new duplexes >>>>> all the way around. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 3:48 PM Jesse DuPont < >>>>> jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Yes. The AF11x "kit" (two radios, two duplexers, two antennas) is >>>>> $1500, need two more duplexers if doing MIMO - another $500 ish. Then $2K >>>>> (at the most) for the coordination/licensing fees. If you want better >>>>> antennas than the UBNT ones in the kit, they'll be over and above. >>>>> Radiowaves and KP make good ones (they're the same antenna, actually). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Jesse DuPont* >>>>> >>>>> Owner / Network Architect >>>>> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net >>>>> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC >>>>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc >>>>> >>>>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband >>>>> >>>>> <celeritynetworks-GIF.gif> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 5/8/20 4:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>> $4K, both radios, both antennas and a license? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Jesse DuPont >>>>> >>>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:39 PM >>>>> >>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; ch...@wbmfg.com >>>>> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> About $4K, 700 Mbps. Open freqs completely depends on your location. >>>>> Might have to upgrade antennas. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Jesse DuPont* >>>>> >>>>> Owner / Network Architect >>>>> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net >>>>> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC >>>>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc >>>>> >>>>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband >>>>> >>>>> <celeritynetworks-GIF.gif> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 5/8/20 3:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>> What is the cost, all in, license, antennas, everything for a system >>>>> that will do 7 miles? >>>>> >>>>> What throughput will that have? >>>>> >>>>> How likely is it to find an open frequency? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jason Wilson >>>>> Remotely Located >>>>> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places. >>>>> 530-651-1736 >>>>> 530-748-9608 Cell >>>>> www.remotelylocated.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > ------------------------------ > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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