Seat belts, covid masks, surge suppressors... safety glasses, ear plugs...  
vaccines, vitamins, exercise...
Religion, politics, health insurance, lottery...   Lots of things have 
believers.  

I know in the early days of telephone, people were getting killed by talking on 
the phone during thunderstorms.  So the first surge suppressors were invented.  
They were called protectors.  And the phone companies all started publishing a 
notice in the phone book about not talking on the phone during storms.  

My first telco job, first job task, first morning on the job,  was to clean the 
carbon blocks on protectors after a thunderstorm rolled through Mt. Vernon, 
Oregon the night before.   The surges would blast chunks of graphite off one 
side of the air gap and contaminate the air gap noising up the phone line.  You 
would take them out, wipe the two halves on your jeans and put them back 
together.  

The central office protectors almost never got hit, but the ones at the house 
did.  This is somewhat analogous to top of tower and bottom of tower.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 9:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

It would be nice of us users to report damage done vs installed method.  Maybe 
set up a form if you're feeling frisky :)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 11:12 AM <[email protected]> wrote:

  I don’t have data.  Hard to replicate strikes and do A/B tests.

  Some folks believe surge suppressors are simply snake oil.  I can’t find my 
folder of all the photos sent to me over the years where the surge suppressor 
is nothing but a charred black crisp but the radio and the customers equipment 
were OK.  

  Direct strikes kills everything including your hot water heater and your 
microwave.  


  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 9:02 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

  The Tik was definitely not damaged.  Did the surge suppressors protect it?  I 
don't know, I guess that's part of my question here. 

  Never seen a surge suppressor blown I don't think.  Never seen one charred.  
I have had to swap them out in a few cases to fix ethernet problems.

  >Some folks have surge suppressors at the top, some at the bottom, some at 
top and bottom. 

  Do you have any data on which is best?

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:49 AM <[email protected]> wrote:

    OK, but did the surge suppressors protect the Tik?  

    Nearby strikes induce hundreds to thousands of volts per meter in all 
conductors.  
    Most of the stories I hear is that the surge suppressor is blown to bits 
but the devices it is connected to are OK.  
    But the closer the strike, the more damage.  

    Some folks have surge suppressors at the top, some at the bottom, some at 
top and bottom.  


    From: Josh Luthman 
    Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:35 AM
    To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

    The Tik is grounded to the bus bar.  The surge cards use the WBMFG metal 
boxes which ground to the same ground, but a different bus bar.


    Josh Luthman
    Office: 937-552-2340
    Direct: 937-552-2343
    1100 Wayne St
    Suite 1337
    Troy, OH 45373


    On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:30 AM <[email protected]> wrote:

      And was the Tik connected to the surge suppressors?

      From: Josh Luthman 
      Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:21 AM
      To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

      Surge cards are only inside the building. 

      We lost 0 ethernet ports on the Tik.


      Josh Luthman
      Office: 937-552-2340
      Direct: 937-552-2343
      1100 Wayne St
      Suite 1337
      Troy, OH 45373


      On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 9:59 AM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote:

        We’ve gone to the “Cat6” (gas tube) versions but I don’t think that has 
any bearing on your question, if anything they may offer less protection, but 
better Ethernet data integrity.



        Are you putting these at both ends of the cable, or only at the switch 
or router end?



        I never assume they protect the radios, unless the surge is coming from 
the network side, e.g. a power line surge.  They protect the network equipment 
like switch, router or POE.  If the surge is coming from the radio end, my 
personal opinion is a surge protector may actually increase the chance of radio 
damage by giving the surge a path to ground via the cable.  But let’s face it, 
if the tower take a hit, you may lose equipment no matter what you do for 
grounding or surge protection.  Best bet may be fiber for data and a direct 
power cable with a DC surge protector right at the radio.



        Strange that the Powerbridge was the only survivor, as you say, it’s 
not exactly a high end piece of equipment, basically a Rocket PCB built into a 
panel antenna.  But it might be interesting to do a failure analysis on the 
stuff that died.  Most of the time I find it’s the power supply that got fried, 
the radio won’t even power up.  I looked at a Transtector product once that had 
fuses in the protection modules, that would seem to mean you always have to 
replace the modules after a surge, but maybe the fuse opening up is better for 
the radio.



        I suspect you just had a bad day.  It happens despite best efforts.  



        From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
        Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:27 AM
        To: AFMUG <[email protected]>
        Subject: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?



        I've regularly used the 444 cards.  Pretty much exclusively for years 
we've been using the GIGE-APC-HV.



        On a tower with 9 devices, I lost 8 of them.  We've had 0 problems on 
this tower since adding the surge cards almost 6 years ago.  A mix of 
Ubnt/Cambium.  The one device that survived was a Powerbridge (the shitty 
panel) with one of the old surge cards that has an LED on it indicating power.  
All 8 other devices needed to be replaced on the tower.



        What should I expect the surge cards to do?  I keep reading that the 
card should sacrifice itself so we can just replace the card on the ground 
instead of the radio on the tower - better for a 1 person fix, way cheaper, 
ground instead of tower, faster, etc.  The tower owner is a big Motorola R56 
guy and gave us the thumbs up with how we did the grounding.



        Did I just get screwed hard for some reason?  An employee of the tower 
owner came out and had to fix some of their gear for their two way Motorola 
radio stuff, too, so maybe it was just a really shitty day.




        Josh Luthman
        Office: 937-552-2340
        Direct: 937-552-2343
        1100 Wayne St
        Suite 1337
        Troy, OH 45373

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